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Author
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Topic: 231120250542: Armstrong-signed Apollo 11 litho
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vidoz
Member Posts: 82
From: Italy
Registered: Aug 2011
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posted 01-02-2014 08:52 AM
   
I noticed this auction from seller gabi-2311.Just wondering what your thoughts are on the signature as it doesn't look good to me. Thanks in advance for your opinions!
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moonnut
Member Posts: 248
From: Andover, MN
Registered: Apr 2013
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posted 01-02-2014 09:03 AM
Looks too iffy to me. If you have doubt then don't bid. I personally wouldn't. |
Tykeanaut
Member Posts: 2212
From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 01-02-2014 10:22 AM
Well, someone has paid $1,777 for it. I wouldn't have. |
JasonIUP
Member Posts: 282
From: PA
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 01-02-2014 01:02 PM
It's an early '70s version. |
Steve Zarelli
Member Posts: 731
From: Upstate New York, USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 01-02-2014 02:28 PM
What is? The litho?   |
Michael1976
Member Posts: 106
From: Chandler, AZ 85249
Registered: Nov 2011
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posted 01-02-2014 07:11 PM
I had an eBay conversation with this seller. Told him the signature was horrible. He said the signature was vetted by Florian as is all his stuff is... see below.. This was in a big collection of a great seller and normally all my signatures are proofed from Florian Noller, Spaceflori the president of the german space philately and a friend of my father.You have also the 100% guarantee if you are not satisfied with anything you can send it back. I asked him if Florian had thought this was real and he said yes. |
Mike Dixon
Member Posts: 1397
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003
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posted 01-02-2014 08:05 PM
Her (and yes, the seller is a lady) auctions are, for the most part, all legit. There have been some recent glaring exceptions, and this looks like another one.For the dollars involved, you really need to make sure you do your homework and that applies to both seller and buyer. |
JasonIUP
Member Posts: 282
From: PA
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 01-03-2014 02:39 PM
It looks very similar to 70's versions that RR has had. I have a good reference library and I did my homework before bidding. |
JasonB
Member Posts: 1091
From:
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted 01-03-2014 04:25 PM
I have a policy that has served me very well when in doubt. If Steve Zarelli says its okay your good. If not run away!I saw this a few days back and it looked very off to me. |
chet
Member Posts: 1506
From: Beverly Hills, Calif.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-03-2014 06:34 PM
I also emailed the seller to ask about the advertised "20 of 25" aspect of this litho, but received a reply that ignored my question and simply insisted the autograph was authentic; can't say I have any confidence in that assertion. |
stsmithva
Member Posts: 1933
From: Fairfax, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 01-03-2014 07:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by chet:
the advertised "20 of 25" aspect of this litho
The description did include "20/25", but I believe the German seller was describing it as 20 cm by 25 cm, which is the usual conversion for 8 inch by 10 inch photos. |
Michael1976
Member Posts: 106
From: Chandler, AZ 85249
Registered: Nov 2011
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posted 01-03-2014 08:06 PM
RR has this one for sale in their current auction. |
vidoz
Member Posts: 82
From: Italy
Registered: Aug 2011
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posted 01-03-2014 08:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by stsmithva:
...but I believe the German seller was describing it as 20 cm by 25 cm...
Yes, I confirm that 20/25 stands for 20 cm by 25 cm. Well, I would be pretty surprised if Florian had the time to review all of the signed items auctioned by gabi-2311, since she put tons of items up for auction every week, many of them even bearing multiple signatures, but who knows... Anyhow, I wanted to thank all of you for your valuable opinions and expertise, which confirmed my bad gut feeling about the signature at issue and helped me to dodge a bullet! |
moonnut
Member Posts: 248
From: Andover, MN
Registered: Apr 2013
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posted 01-03-2014 10:55 PM
Hope whoever bought it uses the 100% guarantee if you are not satisfied with anything you can send it back. Whenever i see someone selling that amount of stuff, that seems never ending, it makes me hesitant. Double up on the research in that case. |
fredtrav
Member Posts: 1673
From: Birmingham AL
Registered: Aug 2010
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posted 01-03-2014 11:47 PM
I would check with Florian to see if gabi is using his reputation with him not knowing about it. I had once asked about this seller and he told me that she had some good items and some questionable ones. It was a year or two ago when I last asked him however so he could be working with her now. Check with him though.If you have not paid for the item, do not and tell her you would be using the return option as you have since found that the autograph is "iffy" and ask her to cancel the sale. That is assuming that is what you want to do. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 01-04-2014 02:00 PM
Instead of speculating on what he may or may not have reviewed, the simple solution is for Florian to post here and tell us if he approved this item. |
JasonIUP
Member Posts: 282
From: PA
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 01-04-2014 02:17 PM
I wonder what everyone's opinions are of the Armstrong. I vote "yes". Who wants to opine? |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 01-04-2014 03:03 PM
Are you the buyer, Jason? If so, I strongly suggest returning this for a refund. Sorry. (In other words, I vote "no.") |
Greggy_D
Member Posts: 977
From: Michigan
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 01-04-2014 03:05 PM
The "A" in Armstrong looks really tentative to me. Almost as if the signer was trying to correct the shape mid-stroke. For that amount of money it's not perfect enough and I would pass. Another "no" vote here. |
JasonB
Member Posts: 1091
From:
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted 01-04-2014 04:02 PM
The A looks way off. It's hard to see the rest but that would be enough for me to pass on it. |
JasonIUP
Member Posts: 282
From: PA
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 01-04-2014 04:18 PM
No, I didn't buy it. But, if this one isn't right, what about these? 1 | 2 | 3 |
Michael1976
Member Posts: 106
From: Chandler, AZ 85249
Registered: Nov 2011
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posted 01-04-2014 04:52 PM
In my opinion, the second and third are really bad and were forged by the same person. The first one looks like a real Collins, a bad Armstrong (notice the start stop start on the A, terrible baseline on the Eil), and I'm undecided on the Aldrin. This is just my opinion... |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 01-04-2014 05:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by JasonIUP:
...what about these?
The first is lot 447 from RR Auction's July 2009 auction. The second is lot 420 from RR Auction's August 2009 auction. The third is lot 459 from RR Auction's September 2011 auction. |
JasonIUP
Member Posts: 282
From: PA
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 01-04-2014 05:24 PM
Or they're 70's versions, like the eBay one. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 01-04-2014 05:38 PM
There are significant differences between the eBay example and the three you have singled out. If anything the comparison offers more reason to doubt the eBay example. |
Steve Zarelli
Member Posts: 731
From: Upstate New York, USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 01-04-2014 08:07 PM
I tend to avoid unsolicited opinions, but because the buyer asked, I have serious misgivings about the authenticity of this item. - Size, placement and angle are all atypical
- Why does it look like it was signed recently with a blue Sharpie and not the weak water-based Flair pen he usually used?
- Spacing between first and last name atypical and the horizontal plane between the first and last is off as well.
- Unusual left slant to "eil"
- Hesitant beginning to top stroke of A
- At least four other subtle traits I prefer to not publicly reveal are inconsistent with authentic
The signature appears to bear the rudimentary "essence" of Armstrong, but spatially it looks like it is coming apart at the seams.Could it be a completely freaky, yet authentic? I could not completely rule it out. But, I'd be surprised if that was the case. |
moonnut
Member Posts: 248
From: Andover, MN
Registered: Apr 2013
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posted 01-04-2014 08:16 PM
I thought the same as Robert's last post when I looked at the other examples Jason gave. Really, all in all, seems the consensus is a NO. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 01-04-2014 08:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
There are significant differences between the eBay example and the three you have singled out. If anything the comparison offers more reason to doubt the eBay example.
I totally agree. The three RR examples are authentic and show natural variations in the signatures. The eBay example is simply too far off the mark, in my opinion, to be authentic. The forger may have indeed been trying to replicate a 70s style signature, but they fell short of producing a convincing example. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 01-07-2014 12:30 PM
It would be good to determine if Florian did review this item (as the seller claims) or whether the seller is wrong (or worse, lying) about it being authenticated. If Florian did give his okay to this signature, I would be curious to hear his reasons why he thinks the signature is authentic. Likewise, if the seller is wrong about Florian okaying this item, that is something that potential buyers should know... plus, I'm also guessing that Florian would be interested in setting the record straight. |
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