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Author
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Topic: Space shuttle orbiter flags on eBay: authentic?
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DCM
New Member Posts: 1
From: Cocoa, Florida, USA
Registered: May 2011
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posted 12-20-2012 10:40 PM
  
Has anyone here purchased any of the 3x5 foot shuttle flags that have surfaced on eBay. If so what is the quality of the flags? Do you think they are official NASA issue? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 12-20-2012 10:49 PM
I can't speak to specific sales without seeing them (obviously), but here's an explanation for a good number of the flags listed from a post I wrote in Nov. 2010: So how is it that Annin & Co. flags are being listed and sold on eBay?Within the past several months or so, what began as a small order at Kennedy Space Center spread to encompass two very large batch orders by NASA and contractor employees at all the centers and facilities. By very large, I mean thousands of flags, if not also thousands of sets of flags (each of the orbiters, excluding Enterprise but including Challenger, for which an original Spaceflight Awareness flag never existed). Because of the size of these orders, the flags were available to employees at $20 each, or $100 for the set of five. |
Skuz9c1
New Member Posts: 9
From: Wyoming, Michigan, USA
Registered: Oct 2011
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posted 12-22-2012 09:56 AM
The original Annin flags are 4 by 6 feet. |
p51
Member Posts: 1642
From: Olympia, WA
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted 12-23-2012 09:40 PM
It didn't occur to me that these could be pirated flags. Does anyone think they might be unlicensed copies, or just a different production run? I just won two of these on eBay but haven't paid yet. If they're unlicensed copies, I won't be paying them in such a case... |
p51
Member Posts: 1642
From: Olympia, WA
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted 12-26-2012 04:33 PM
I've e-mailed the seller twice so far asking where he got these.It really chaps me that someone might be making copies of the complete flags. Surely, someone should know if they're copies or not, right? |
Greggy_D
Member Posts: 977
From: Michigan
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 12-26-2012 04:39 PM
I'm not seeing the Annin logo along the edge of the 3x5 flags. Personally, I wouldn't bid on them. |
p51
Member Posts: 1642
From: Olympia, WA
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted 12-27-2012 10:56 AM
I looked up Annin & Co online and called them. They never heard of these flags before and the lady I talked with was pretty ticked when I described them ("Oh really? Do you have that eBay listing number so we can look at it?"). The seller has not returned any of my messages asking if this is a NASA sanctioned flag set or not. Clearly, not a good sign.I'm just glad I realized this before I made any payment. I contacted eBay and let them know they appear to be fakes. We'll see where this goes... |
GACspaceguy
Member Posts: 2475
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 12-27-2012 11:26 AM
Too late for me, as I had bought two of them. As I am a buyer I sent a question asking about authenticity but so far no response. It is pretty obvious to me now that these are knock offs so I plan to contact eBay once the items arrives.
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Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 12-27-2012 11:53 AM
This may be something worthy of bringing to the attention of NASA's Office of Inspector General, too. My understanding, based on what I was told by NASA public affairs officers over the years, was that the orbiter flag designs were protected for use, and only those authorized by the space agency were allowed to reproduce them.NASA authorized Annin & Co. to produce the flags for use by the space shuttle program and in 2010, for distribution to employees and contractors. I'm not aware of further permissions being granted since then. |
p51
Member Posts: 1642
From: Olympia, WA
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted 12-27-2012 11:56 AM
quote:
Originally posted by GACspaceguy:
As I am a buyer I sent a question asking about authenticity but so far no response.
Yeah, same here, more than once, too. I doubt we were the only two who did.To me, that's a pretty clear indication of what these really are. I hope I don't take the hit for not paying for the two I won the listing for, but I'm willing to take that chance. I only bid because I just didn't pay attention, darn it. |
p51
Member Posts: 1642
From: Olympia, WA
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted 12-28-2012 02:35 PM
The seller filed a nonpayment claim yesterday for me not paying for these fake flags. I called eBay and got a serious non-answer in that regard. I think I was told that they're reviewing my report that these are counterfeits, but the claim of non-payment is still also being reviewed. I think they said that if my claim has merit, they'll delete my responsibility to pay for these two fake flags. At least that what I think they said, the person on the phone wasn't very good at describing their position...I sent a message to the seller that said, in effect, good luck getting your money, because I don't pay for faked items. So, what response did I get from that? Sure wasn't what I expected; I got positive feedback about half an hour later from him! Yeah, tell me the guy doesn't know he's faking the things! I suggest people file reports against all these fake flags that this guy is flooding the market with. |
dragon001
Member Posts: 47
From: Allentown, PA, USA
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted 12-29-2012 12:06 AM
Does anyone have an opinion on the 4'x6' orbiter flags that are on eBay now and again? Are there anythings to look for that would show it as legit/NASA sanctioned for use or employee purchase? |
Gonzo
Member Posts: 596
From: Lansing, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 12-29-2012 06:37 AM
Yes - it will have "Annin Co." or their logo on the border. And yes, the sanctioned ones will be 4'x6'. |
garymilgrom
Member Posts: 1966
From: Atlanta, GA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 12-29-2012 07:36 AM
Here is a close up and wider view of the markings on the real flags. This is the top left corner of an Enterprise flag.  |
Ronpur
Member Posts: 1211
From: Brandon, Fl
Registered: May 2012
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posted 01-04-2013 06:23 PM
I just bought an Enterprise flag from eBay and it does not have the logo shown in the above picture. It was less that $20 so it was still a deal and looks great on my wall. I also ordered an Atlantis flag, so I expect it to be the same. If I get it anyway. The payment for that flag is still unclaimed. And no response from my email. I am not too upset these are fakes, I planned to tack it to the wall above my models for a nice backdrop. I would have been upset if I had paid the price that a real flag goes for and expected an original. |
p51
Member Posts: 1642
From: Olympia, WA
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted 01-04-2013 07:07 PM
The seller is a total flake.I never paid him, but he gave me positive feedback, then filed a non-payment claim. I had a log discussion with eBay on the phone last night and explained what these were and that they're fakes. I was told they have an entire team of people who look into that as it's a liability for them to be a vendor for fake anything. I even gave them the contact info for the real flag makers, as there's no reason to just take my word for it. I'm just glad I found out before any money changed hands. I'll be darned if I'm paying for a known copy of something that can be bought commercially! |
dragon001
Member Posts: 47
From: Allentown, PA, USA
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted 01-05-2013 11:46 PM
Search eBay for "authentic space shuttle flag." Several sellers are listing 4x6 Annin flags for $89 starting bid/$99 buy it now.The listings include the picture of the Annin logo on the flag. My Challenger 4'x6' flag should be at my door Monday. |
Ronpur
Member Posts: 1211
From: Brandon, Fl
Registered: May 2012
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posted 01-06-2013 09:32 AM
Maybe I can afford one of those flags. I was hoping to get a complete set of the replicas, but it looks like they are gone. |
Tykeanaut
Member Posts: 2212
From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 01-06-2013 11:25 AM
If an item is not what it's supposed to be you are well within your rights to return it and not pay for it. |
Fezman92
Member Posts: 1031
From: New Jersey, USA
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 01-06-2013 11:44 AM
Two years ago or so I snagged an official Endeavour flag so I am happy with what I have. |
Zach121k
Member Posts: 62
From: Fenton, Missouri, USA
Registered: Feb 2013
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posted 02-07-2013 04:41 PM
Last December I received this Atlantis flag as a gift from my family. They bought the flag off of eBay. The listing was identical to this one. It came with the 4X6 Flag and Press Notebook.Is this an authentic NASA flag. Or was I ripped off? Editor's note: Threads merged. |
Gonzo
Member Posts: 596
From: Lansing, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 02-07-2013 04:54 PM
Good news, Zach. It has the Annin markings in the corner. It's authentic. |
Zach121k
Member Posts: 62
From: Fenton, Missouri, USA
Registered: Feb 2013
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posted 02-07-2013 05:37 PM
Yes! I guess its from 135 like it said? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 02-07-2013 06:30 PM
The reporter's notebook is from STS-135, but the flag was not used by the space shuttle program. See my reply from Dec. 20, 2012 (above) for the history of where these flags originated. |
Zach121k
Member Posts: 62
From: Fenton, Missouri, USA
Registered: Feb 2013
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posted 02-08-2013 09:02 AM
But it is still authentic NASA correct. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 02-08-2013 09:43 AM
It is an authentic Annin Co. flag, the only company that was authorized by NASA to produce them for employees. |
p51
Member Posts: 1642
From: Olympia, WA
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted 02-08-2013 10:56 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Tykeanaut:
If an item is not what it's supposed to be you are well within your rights to return it and not pay for it.
eBay saw it differently. I got nailed with a failure to pay notification anyway. Their people told me there was nothing they could do about it, but as long as I don't 'make a habit of not paying' I would be fine. I replied that depended on how many fake items they allowed to be run on their site. They didn't like that response... |
Zach121k
Member Posts: 62
From: Fenton, Missouri, USA
Registered: Feb 2013
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posted 02-08-2013 12:48 PM
Is it the same that flew? So it is real NASA. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 02-08-2013 12:55 PM
The Annin Co. flags are the same as those that flew over the launch pad and press site at Kennedy Space Center, as well as elsewhere around the Florida spaceport and at other NASA facilities.The flags were also the same as was carried onboard the orbiters, though their primary use was for ground operations. The flags for sale now however, were not produced for operational use but as mementos for space program employees. |
p51
Member Posts: 1642
From: Olympia, WA
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted 04-15-2013 12:46 PM
Beats me how he's getting away with it, but someone’s making 3 by 5 copies of these flags complete with the "Manned Space Flight Awareness" logo. Check out eBay item #221213261781 for an example, he has them for all the orbiters. |
Greggy_D
Member Posts: 977
From: Michigan
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 04-15-2013 01:50 PM
At least the listing indicates the flag is a replica. |
p51
Member Posts: 1642
From: Olympia, WA
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted 04-15-2013 03:34 PM
Agreed. I give the seller props for being honest, but with the logos in place it seems a pretty harsh violation of the copyright/trademark... |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 04-15-2013 03:50 PM
This is not a copyright or trademark issue; NASA does not claim either. It is however, counter to NASA policy to allow the orbiter flags to be reproduced without the agency's permission. |
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