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Author
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Topic: 380436976301: Second offer for Silver Snoopy
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prontouk
Member Posts: 68
From: Scotland
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 05-15-2012 07:56 AM
   
Just missed out on what looked like a Silver Snoopy pin on eBay, item 380436976301. I've now been offered a second offer of another similar pin. Is that weird that one seller would have two pins to sell?I'm a bit wary and have asked for more details. Any thoughts? |
Tykeanaut
Member Posts: 2212
From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 05-15-2012 08:03 AM
Be careful and have a look at Chris Spain's Space Flown Collectibles website. |
prontouk
Member Posts: 68
From: Scotland
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 05-15-2012 09:17 AM
Thanks for that. I had read Chris's page very closely and felt the pin shown looked pretty authentic, seemed to match the Apollo/early Shuttle - Variant V. However to be offered a second seems a bit strange. I'll see if seller sends any more info but in the words of "Dragons Den" - "I'm out"!
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Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 05-15-2012 09:23 AM
Chris brought up this concern as well, but the seller's claim... These were given to visiting heads of state, forgein country leaders & people of importance when visiting the Kennedy Space Center at the height of the space race in the late 60's and early 70's. ...runs counter to just about every account of the distribution of Silver Snoopy awards, which is to say they were not handed out as souvenirs. |
prontouk
Member Posts: 68
From: Scotland
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 05-15-2012 09:32 AM
Robert, wasn't too sure if the seller was quite aware of what he had up for sale as he used exactly same description for the Apollo vintage tie tack he was selling at the same time. Maybe he had just assumed it was another VIP item. Then again he may well have been a bit economical with the description to cover his backside . In essence he could be laughing at someone paying over $600 for a cheap imitation pin. eBay is still a veritable minefield, but it's still fun though. |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 05-15-2012 10:13 AM
It is unusual for a single collection to include two pins but not impossible.Still I'd want to see good photos of the actual pin he has to offer before risking anything on it, particularly bearing in mind the comments above that he used the same description for other run-of-the-mill pins. If you can get a photo of the back of the pin it would be interesting, although you shouldn't leap to any conclusion about flights just based on similar looking backs. For now we don't have enough examples to really tie pins to particular flights simply based on the appearance of the backs. |
vamanboatin
Member Posts: 214
From: Vienna, VA
Registered: Mar 2004
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posted 05-15-2012 01:00 PM
I won the Snoopy pin last night. I did have some concerns. The seller was never able to describe the back of the pin with any detail. Seller's communication was terrible as well. I unfortunately already paid for this through Paypal. Now learning that he is sending second chance offers really concerns me. I wish I could cancel the purchase at this point. Too many red flags. I should have stuck with my gut instinct. |
prontouk
Member Posts: 68
From: Scotland
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 05-15-2012 01:35 PM
Just had reply from seller. He states that his father worked at NASA for 17 years on all the programs, Mercury, Gemini and Apollo . He consigned a lot of stuff to Superior Auctions a while ago that sold well. He found a small box in December with some items which are the ones on eBay. He had no idea about the Snoopy meaning. He has emailed me a photo of back of one of them and the markings appear to be similar to those on Chris Spain's site. Personally I feel he is genuine and have taken the gamble to purchase second pin.  |
prontouk
Member Posts: 68
From: Scotland
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 05-15-2012 01:51 PM
Here's the other photo the seller sent: |
vamanboatin
Member Posts: 214
From: Vienna, VA
Registered: Mar 2004
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posted 05-15-2012 02:02 PM
I feel much better now. I wonder why he did not post this information or share it with bidders during the auction. |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 05-15-2012 04:03 PM
The obvious question is which pin was sold in the original auction and which is the 2nd chance example?The top one with the vertical clasp is yet another new type for me. The lower example looks a good match for the type 'XV' but that doesn't prove it comes from the same time period. If we knew the father's name we might be able to find him in the SFA database if we're lucky. |
prontouk
Member Posts: 68
From: Scotland
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 05-15-2012 04:19 PM
Just had a further update from the seller. He has informed me that his father was Robert Griffis, who worked in NASA public relations when the Silver Snoopy Award was introduced. Hopefully this might add a nice provenance to these items.Over to the experts. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 05-15-2012 04:39 PM
The database doesn't include record of Griffis receiving the Silver Snoopy, though it is not a complete record of all award recipients. |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 05-16-2012 01:48 AM
I would say the fact that he worked in public relations does slightly increase the chance that he had access to unflown Silver Snoopy pins.I'd be trying to push the seller to dig through drawers looking for a presentation letter, award certificate or newspaper clipping. That said, even if you found two lots of presentations you wouldn't know now which of the pins was presented when, and if you only find one lot you wouldn't know which of the two pins it was linked to. |
prontouk
Member Posts: 68
From: Scotland
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 05-16-2012 06:02 AM
I think Chris has a fair point that these pins may well be unflown. The seller says that his father was involved in the set up of the Snoopy Award scheme and it makes sense that he may have been "allowed" a couple of "spares" as a perk of the job. Anyhow I feel safe that they have come from a genuine source and are still a part of our space history.I also found the auction where some of his father's stuff was sold. It was Superior Auction 83 on Oct. 1-3 2010. There were several lots for sale, Lot 351 had some Snoopy related items. Hope that helps. |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 05-16-2012 07:32 AM
Taking this all into account are you taking the second chance offer or are we likely to see the second pin on eBay?I'm still not clear which of the two pins pictured above was sold first, although when vamanboatin gets his pin I guess we'll know. |
vamanboatin
Member Posts: 214
From: Vienna, VA
Registered: Mar 2004
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posted 05-16-2012 08:05 AM
With no paperwork backing up flown status does anyone have an opinion on the values? Flown or not I believe these hold a great place in NASA and American history. |
prontouk
Member Posts: 68
From: Scotland
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 05-16-2012 08:08 AM
I did take the second offer. I'm presuming that tie tac version will go to other buyer as that was the title of original eBay item. Guessing I'll receive the one with the pin clasp. Who knows? Don't want any disagreement about which one is the best option.  I'll post pictures when it arrives.
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spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 05-16-2012 08:40 AM
The absolute lowest I've seen a pin without docs sell for in recent years is close to $500. That's for a pin without any provenance so there's always a possibility it's not flown.These pins both look to be early versions. The one with the vertical clasp looks likely to be the earliest (I'll be adding it as variant XX on my site). The other looks a good match for the variant XV which may (and I stress may) be from around the time of the Apollo 11 mission. Taking everything into account the prices seem reasonable. |
prontouk
Member Posts: 68
From: Scotland
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 05-17-2012 11:34 AM
Another update: Have trawled the internet and it turns out Mr. Robert Griffis' title was TWA Chairman of Cost Reduction at KSC during Apollo program. There was signed photo of Wernher Von Braun inscribed "to Bob for great job in Manned Flight Awareness" sold in October 2010 auction as mentioned before.Hope that helps vamanboatin's nerves. |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 05-18-2012 02:18 AM
I've updated the Silver Snoopy thread in the flown items section to take into account some of the issues raised by the pins mentioned above. |
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