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  200387977591: Buzz Aldrin-signed covers

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Author Topic:   200387977591: Buzz Aldrin-signed covers
rickdiii
Member

Posts: 105
From: west melbourne, fl
Registered: Aug 2009

posted 09-25-2009 07:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rickdiii   Click Here to Email rickdiii     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are several covers that I am considering, can anyone shed some light on these? Are they autopen? I have not found any that match these.

The seller has several, but the A does not look like the signed ones that I have from Mr. Aldrin?

Updade, they all sold, but I would love to know what you all think. You can see the completed listings and see all of them.

SpaceSteve
Member

Posts: 428
From: San Antonio TX, USA
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 09-25-2009 09:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceSteve   Click Here to Email SpaceSteve     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Aldrin on that Apollo 8/11 combo cover, while it doesn't appear to be an autopen, is too shaky for my liking. It could be that it's a "walking" signature with nothing under the cover to support it while being signed, but I just don't like it.

I looked at a few more of the seller's items, and the Grissom Mercury cover is a match for example #1 in the astronaut autopen guide, and the Apollo 16 cover is all-autopens of Young, Duke and Mattingly. The Shepard also, is a secretarial (spiked-p). Even their Walt Cunningham is an autopen. None of them are identified as fakes.

It does appear that a couple of the seller's items could be authentic, but I would personally stay away from this particular seller, as too many of their items cause me some concern.

Ken Havekotte
Member

Posts: 2914
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 09-26-2009 05:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rick--Just saw your cS-post here along with your email to me that I'll respond to later. Meanwhile, I'll have to agree with SpaceSteve. The Aldrin "signed" Apollo 8/11 Orbit/Ronson combo-cover does have concerns for me as well as Aldrin stopped signing philatelic items in 1979. Let me email you with more about the Aldrin along with some of his other recent eBay listings. Indeed, many are autopens along with an early Shepard secretarial, and as SpaceSteve pointed out, none of his offered autopens were/are identified as such.

Daniel Lazecky
Member

Posts: 480
From: Czech Republic-Europe
Registered: Oct 2007

posted 09-26-2009 08:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Lazecky   Click Here to Email Daniel Lazecky     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hallo Rick., already am wrote to you about Aldrin in post also. All views and scan sound like autopen.

One and or two like secretary personal also. No matter what is that a so and or else, no lose trust. Surely will succeed sometimes identify real autograph.

Everything collection any requires above all deep study and patience. Common silane put hand on.

Scott
Member

Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001

posted 09-26-2009 09:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ken, Kim could give you more details, but Aldrin has apparently signed covers at at least one Novaspace signing in the last several years.

Based on its (200387977591) appearance, from what I can see here, in my opinion there is a good chance this Aldrin is authentic.

Ken Havekotte
Member

Posts: 2914
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 09-26-2009 12:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Scott, not knowing anything about the background of this Aldrin cover, I am not aware of any Aldrin signed covers within the last 3 decades.

Perhaps Kim could tell us if there were any Aldrin sign covers done at one of their signings. If so, I am just not aware of it.

While certainly not an autopen, I was more concerned with it being atypical.

But my concern with the Aldrin, thinking pre-1979 period, are some concerns with "uzz" and the "slow" underscore lines that I am just not too crazy about. The "B" of Buzz looks fine and may had been a rushed sig., but in the overall picture, it seems more atypical in my opinion than in comparison to Aldrin signed material throughout the 1970s, of which I have hundreds to compare with from my collection and sig-files.

Another indication in my mind would be the actual seller. As others have pointed out, his record of selling autopens and other questionable pieces, might be a good indication to stay away from this ebay seller. But of course, that doesn't necessarily mean all of his offered autgoraph material isn't good, neither.

Spacefest
Member

Posts: 1168
From: Tucson, AZ
Registered: Jan 2009

posted 09-26-2009 02:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spacefest   Click Here to Email Spacefest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, he offered to sign two covers @$1500 apiece, in 2001. One guy OK'd it (he's signing it on Astronaut Central Signings and Events) the other said no, despite an explanatory phone call from Buzz.

Since then, though, he has refused to sign anything with stamp on it.

Incidentally, I don't like this Aldrin either.

Kim
AstronautCentral.com

rickdiii
Member

Posts: 105
From: west melbourne, fl
Registered: Aug 2009

posted 09-26-2009 08:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rickdiii   Click Here to Email rickdiii     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you guys, The collection where all these covers came from is of over 1000 assorted covers from a gentleman that passed away. He collected in the late 60's and 70's and 80's attending many events and launches.

He died suddenly, and was not able to give anyone a clue about this collection. Thank you for all your insight on this all. I am trying to get to the bottom of this, and know what is authentic or not.

Ken Havekotte
Member

Posts: 2914
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 09-26-2009 08:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rick--Was the collection from Bill A. Kern? Yes, I knew him, as we had corresponded together for years and had him down for a shuttle launch attempt in 1984. He was mostly a space cover collector, however, I can't--or didn't recall--Bill being a big space autograph collector. Perhaps we can see more of his autograph material in order to get a better idea of how he collected, did he have autopens (as it would appear from prior ebay offerings), and so on...

rickdiii
Member

Posts: 105
From: west melbourne, fl
Registered: Aug 2009

posted 09-26-2009 09:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rickdiii   Click Here to Email rickdiii     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, Here are the six I have from the Bill Kern collection. The seller that inherited this collection is a great guy. He and his wife are selling the covers and need some help. They are trying to go though all this stuff.

Ken Havekotte
Member

Posts: 2914
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 09-26-2009 10:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rick--Just saw the other Aldrin signed covers from your provided scans in a prior posting here.

Mostly throughout the 1970/80s I did process and service many of Bill's covers at Kennedy Space Center for a variety of events, including major Apollo 11 anniversaries.

Even though it has been many years ago, the anniversary postal markings on the Aldrin covers were probably applied by myself at either one or two branch stations from those periods.

What concerns me now are the signatures on them, and in all honesty, I just can't recall processing any of Bill's covers, as depicted, with any prior Aldrin sigs on them; all from after 1979 or so when the 2nd moonwalker stopped signing any covers and stamps.

By no means, though, am I trying to imply that Bill had anything to do with any of the Aldrin signatures possibly not being authentic. But, if my memory serves me correctly, just about all of his space covers being processed by my firm on the Florida Space Coast did not contain autographs.

As time permits, let me check in one of my old filing cabinets to see if there is a Bill Kern folder somewhere. Perhaps it might help shed more light on some of the items that were processed for him.

MrSpace86
Member

Posts: 1618
From: Gardner, KS, USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 09-27-2009 11:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrSpace86   Click Here to Email MrSpace86     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I purchased a Gemini 7 crew signed cover from this seller and they sent me a Gemini 6 crew signed cover. I was really into the Gemini 7 cover but I guess I will have to keep the Gemini 6. I contacted them about it and they said they no longer had the 7 cover. Oh well. Careful though, as a lot of those items look fishy, autopen, secretrial, forgery, and authentic. Do your research before bidding with this seller.

rickdiii
Member

Posts: 105
From: west melbourne, fl
Registered: Aug 2009

posted 09-28-2009 08:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rickdiii   Click Here to Email rickdiii     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay, let me give a little background.

The sellers are a husband and wife, named Steve and Crystal, they are real estate agents. They inherited a huge collection of much more than space items. She has an eBay account, and he has one as well. You will see that many of the items they sell, are inscribed to Bill Kern, a former friend of Ken H. Bill was killed in a motorcycle accident this last fall, and in his will gave them the entire estate as he had no survivors. They were simply his neighbor. Their little daughters, were like grandchildren to him.

I spoke to them today, and told them about RR auction, and their services. At the moment, there are many inscribed items to Bill Kern, which include large covers signed by Irwin and Aldrin. Steve has no clue to prices, and I hope he can sort this out, and work his way though this collection. I expect Steve to be contacting RR Auction soon.

His ebay is lairdline. Hers is crystalsellshomes.

I am just trying to help them, and they have been great to deal with. Yes I did buy some autopens, but when I asked to exchange them, they were great, took them back, and even gave me free covers as gifts. For the person that got the wrong one, I am sure it was from Crystal, as she is just learning how to eBay. One time she had the same item up two times. Please contact Steve about it, and he will make it right with you.

Ken Havekotte
Member

Posts: 2914
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 09-28-2009 08:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rick--So sad to hear that Bill had passed away last fall and it appears that his "space collection" estate is in good hands with Steve and Crystal.

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