Space News
space history and artifacts articles

Messages
space history discussion forums

Sightings
worldwide astronaut appearances

Resources
selected space history documents

  collectSPACE: Messages
  Opinions & Advice
  "Westerntradersla"

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   "Westerntradersla"
Bob M
Member

Posts: 1745
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 07-06-2004 10:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bob M   Click Here to Email Bob M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This guy is cleaning up on eBay with his autopens. His auctions have been discussed elsewhere here, but nothing has been posted in a while while he continues to sell his autopens as genuine. Has anyone received any reply back from him or from any of those who have been buying his autopens advertized as authentic?

His Apollo 11 autopenned crew litho went for $1,473 several days ago & he now has two John Young autopenned portraits around $100 each. His Apollo 13 is at $127.50, while his Skylabx9 is at $77.05.

He gives each lot a glowing buildup, with: "Hand signed," 100% authentic, not a copy or facsimile," and "guarenteed to pass PSA/DNA."

Bob Mc.

machbusterman
Member

Posts: 1778
From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland
Registered: May 2004

posted 07-06-2004 03:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for machbusterman   Click Here to Email machbusterman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bob,

I'd bidded on a few of his lithos but only up to a max value of about $15 as most of them looked like autopens. I'm waiting to see what kind of feedback he gets from all these items. I've just sent the winner of the AP11 crew litho an email.. lets see what happens after this... I'll probably get blackballed by eBay!! Hope the poor guy hasn't sent payment yet.

Cheers, Derek

gliderpilotuk
Member

Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 07-06-2004 05:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gliderpilotuk   Click Here to Email gliderpilotuk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I emailed the seller twice - no reply- and emailed one of the bidders - no reply (that's gratitude for you). That's my good deed for the month.
Strange that some of his stuff is genuine.
Paul

machbusterman
Member

Posts: 1778
From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland
Registered: May 2004

posted 07-07-2004 07:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for machbusterman   Click Here to Email machbusterman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Likewise, I didn't get any reply from the buyer either.. either he's passed out and been hospitalised at the thought of wasting $1400 or he doesn't care... either way, its the last time I spend time writing to a buyer on eBay offering comment.

Regards, Derek

Bob M
Member

Posts: 1745
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 07-07-2004 10:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bob M   Click Here to Email Bob M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll e-mail all the winners & direct them to the autopen listing on cS. I have a feeling that the unlucky, & maybe now unhappy, winning bidders are now involved with the seller & are asking some questions.

BMc

MarylandSpace
Member

Posts: 1336
From:
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 07-07-2004 11:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MarylandSpace   Click Here to Email MarylandSpace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I asked a fellow CSer advice on the Skylab floating heads. Autopen.

I asked the seller to remove my bid but no response. Someone took me off the hook by bidding higher than me, but then they were taken.

I did bid on the Ron Evans which appeared to be the real deal but got outbid fairly.

I am grateful for the opinions and knowledge of my fellow CS members.

Regards, Garry

Bob M
Member

Posts: 1745
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 07-08-2004 09:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bob M   Click Here to Email Bob M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Westerntradersla" continues to list new lots of autopens and ignores warnings about him misrepresenting many of the astronaut signatures he's offering on eBay.

In the last 24-hours he's listed Apollos 9, 14, 16 & 17 autopenned crew lithos, plus a Shepard WSS. And they continue to receive bids, although low at this time. He continues to describe his lots as "100% authentic signed, not a copy or facsimilie."

I've sent e-mails to three of his unfortunate winning bidders about them buying autopens described as authentic & the winner of his Apollo 10 autopenned crew litho has responded back.

Besides the continued threat of better & better forgeries, our hobby is also being threatened by autopens & also by a new dangerous scam of prints of genuine items.

Bob Mc.

Frederic Janik
Member

Posts: 320
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 07-08-2004 01:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Frederic Janik   Click Here to Email Frederic Janik     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bob,

Being the recent father of a baby girl
I don't have time to go inspect all closed sales from Westerntradersla but with correct info on which were autopens I'm ready to e-mail eBay with the lot numbers and a link to the autopen resource...

With forgeries there's always a bit of subjectivity involved, but even eBay should be able to recognize many, many autopen patterns when we point them to them?!?

Anyway, keep up the good fight

Frederic

spectramr2
New Member

Posts:
From:
Registered:

posted 07-08-2004 02:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spectramr2   Click Here to Email spectramr2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i have purchased several items from this seller before. They are very reputable and have always been 100% honest with me. They have done private signings with several known atheletes and those dont come cheap. I think that it might be an honest error on their part so i wouldnt go around slandering them before you find out whats real and whats not.

Bob M
Member

Posts: 1745
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 07-08-2004 02:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bob M   Click Here to Email Bob M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Frederic,

Congratulations on becoming a father.

You're right - identifying autopens is different that identifying forgeries. Forgeries are subjective & can just be a matter of opinion & can be hard to prove. But autopens are relatively easy to identify and to prove as being APs. Lists of autopen examples are found in several locations on the Internet & it should be an easy matter for anyone (seller, bidder or buyer) to compare their examples to known AP examples & know for sure one way or another.

But "Westerntradersla" is stubborn & may just not want to know. He had a good thing going until some concerned collectors stepped in & tried to stop him misrepresenting his signatures on eBay.

As you asked, soon I'll Email you the list of the APs he's sold on eBay.

BMc

Andy McCulley
Member

Posts: 245
From: Lansdale, PA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 07-08-2004 03:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Andy McCulley   Click Here to Email Andy McCulley     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome to CollectSPACE, spectramr2;

Judging by the fact that you just signed up with CollectSPACE today and your first post is coming to the defence of "Westerntradersla", my guess is that you have some relationship with him. And there's nothing wrong with that. With the possible exception that maybe the relationship is blurring your vision a bit.

First, I would point out that no one has stated "Westerntradersla" sells only non-authentic items. To the contrary. And this same topic is being discussed on another collectors group and they came to the same conclusion. He has some genuine autographs as well as some autopens.

Second, I don't doubt, as you state, that "Westerntradersla" has had signings with athletes and that that are expensive. Unfortunately, the subject matter is not athletes, its Astronauts. These were not acquired at one of their signings. And the only thing they have in common is the expensive part.

Third, even I can match an autograph with autopen sample and determine whether or not they match. A professional autograph dealer should not have a problem.

This issue of autopens was brought up to "Westerntradersla" in plenty of time for him to look at the autopen samples and see for himself and cancel the auction. As near as I can tell, "Westerntradersla" chose to take the money in lieu of the suggestion to investigate the authenticity.

Just out of curiosity, do you know if "Westerntradersla" compared his autographs with the autopen samples? If not, rather then chastising diligent, reputable collectors perhaps, you could help "Westerntradersla" by suggesting that he do so.

Because you are new to CollectSPACE, you may not be aware of the respect some of these folks command with regard to their knowledge and experience in the field of astronaut autograph identification. I don't happpen to one of them - rather, I am one of the collectors that depend of these knowledgable people. But the longer you are a member, the more you will come to realize the importance of people like Bob, Paul and some others. As well as what they are trying to accomplish in matters such as this.

Again, welcome aboard and good luck with your collecting.

spectramr2
New Member

Posts:
From:
Registered:

posted 07-08-2004 04:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spectramr2   Click Here to Email spectramr2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Andy,

Thank you for your insight. I do not have any relationship with them, rather I have just been a happy customer that has had nothing but good experiences from this company. Im sure that once they find out that they are truly indeed autopens, they will rectify the problem. Im not here to jump on anyone, rather point out that they are a decent company and will make it right if there is an issue.

Andy McCulley
Member

Posts: 245
From: Lansdale, PA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 07-08-2004 05:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Andy McCulley   Click Here to Email Andy McCulley     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fair enough!

However, there have been a number of people that have emailed this dealer and advised him of the problem and yet he continues to run his auctions.

As a matter of fact, I just read on another board that "Westerntradersla" has either re-listed one of the crew photos, or listed another identical photo. So it seems "Westerntradersla" really doesn't care.

I certainly respect what you are saying and am very glad that you had a good experience. I don't think the person that who spent $1,400+ for an autopen signature will feel the same.

Have a nice day!

Mike Dixon
Member

Posts: 1397
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003

posted 07-08-2004 11:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Dixon   Click Here to Email Mike Dixon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Im sure that once they find out that they are truly indeed autopens, they will rectify the problem. Im not here to jump on anyone, rather point out that they are a decent company and will make it right if there is an issue."


That'll be interesting .... and in direct conflict with their stated policy of not accepting claims beyond a 48 hour period following the receipt of the goods.

machbusterman
Member

Posts: 1778
From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland
Registered: May 2004

posted 07-09-2004 11:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for machbusterman   Click Here to Email machbusterman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Andy McCulley:
Fair enough!
I don't think the person that who spent $1,400+ for an autopen signature will feel the same.

Have a nice day!


I can happily say that the buyer HASN'T paid for the Apollo 11 crew "signed" litho. I emailed the buyer to alert him. He's worried about getting a negative feedback as a result of not completing the transaction... I put it into perspective for him though... "What would you rater have... ONE negative feedback comment or waste $1473 on an item that does not meet the item description?".

Regards, Derek

***Collecting... its more than a hobby.... its a PASSION )

fabfivefreddy
Member

Posts: 1067
From: Leawood, Kansas USA
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 07-10-2004 12:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for fabfivefreddy   Click Here to Email fabfivefreddy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Too bad this type of behavior has no consequences.
Any victims should report this to the Justice Department. Do not be intimidated by negative feedback threats by sellers.
Report alleged crimes here: http://www1.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp

Tahir

Roman238
New Member

Posts:
From:
Registered:

posted 07-11-2004 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Roman238   Click Here to Email Roman238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wake up, people! Don't you realize that it's all about the money? And that eBay,(while they express concern),cares about nothing but profits? They even go to the extreme of protecting their power-sellers! By the way,...where exactly is this AP website?

Bob M
Member

Posts: 1745
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 07-13-2004 09:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bob M   Click Here to Email Bob M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Roman238 asked where an autopen Website can be found. One is right here on collectspace, but it's only a partial listing & doesn't include two astronauts who were active users of the autopen machine years ago: Tom Stafford & Ken Mattingly. You see a lot of autopens by those two, plus also a lot by Neil Armstrong, Alan Bean & John Young.

Just go to "Resources," then "Identifing Autopens," then "Astronaut Autopen Gallery." Be sure to check out John Young's autopens, as the top example is the same style seen on at least three lithos (Apollo 10, Apollo 16 & WSS) sold by "westerntradersla."

BMc

All times are CT (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | The Source for Space History & Artifacts

Copyright 2020 collectSPACE.com All rights reserved.


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47a





advertisement