Author
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Topic: "Westerntradersla"
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Bob M Member Posts: 1745 From: Atlanta-area, GA USA Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 07-06-2004 10:54 AM
This guy is cleaning up on eBay with his autopens. His auctions have been discussed elsewhere here, but nothing has been posted in a while while he continues to sell his autopens as genuine. Has anyone received any reply back from him or from any of those who have been buying his autopens advertized as authentic? His Apollo 11 autopenned crew litho went for $1,473 several days ago & he now has two John Young autopenned portraits around $100 each. His Apollo 13 is at $127.50, while his Skylabx9 is at $77.05. He gives each lot a glowing buildup, with: "Hand signed," 100% authentic, not a copy or facsimile," and "guarenteed to pass PSA/DNA." Bob Mc. |
machbusterman Member Posts: 1778 From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland Registered: May 2004
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posted 07-06-2004 03:30 PM
Bob,I'd bidded on a few of his lithos but only up to a max value of about $15 as most of them looked like autopens. I'm waiting to see what kind of feedback he gets from all these items. I've just sent the winner of the AP11 crew litho an email.. lets see what happens after this... I'll probably get blackballed by eBay!! Hope the poor guy hasn't sent payment yet. Cheers, Derek |
gliderpilotuk Member Posts: 3398 From: London, UK Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 07-06-2004 05:51 PM
I emailed the seller twice - no reply- and emailed one of the bidders - no reply (that's gratitude for you). That's my good deed for the month. Strange that some of his stuff is genuine. Paul |
machbusterman Member Posts: 1778 From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland Registered: May 2004
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posted 07-07-2004 07:21 AM
Likewise, I didn't get any reply from the buyer either.. either he's passed out and been hospitalised at the thought of wasting $1400 or he doesn't care... either way, its the last time I spend time writing to a buyer on eBay offering comment.Regards, Derek |
Bob M Member Posts: 1745 From: Atlanta-area, GA USA Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 07-07-2004 10:37 AM
I'll e-mail all the winners & direct them to the autopen listing on cS. I have a feeling that the unlucky, & maybe now unhappy, winning bidders are now involved with the seller & are asking some questions. BMc |
MarylandSpace Member Posts: 1336 From: Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 07-07-2004 11:14 AM
I asked a fellow CSer advice on the Skylab floating heads. Autopen.I asked the seller to remove my bid but no response. Someone took me off the hook by bidding higher than me, but then they were taken. I did bid on the Ron Evans which appeared to be the real deal but got outbid fairly. I am grateful for the opinions and knowledge of my fellow CS members. Regards, Garry |
Bob M Member Posts: 1745 From: Atlanta-area, GA USA Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 07-08-2004 09:56 AM
"Westerntradersla" continues to list new lots of autopens and ignores warnings about him misrepresenting many of the astronaut signatures he's offering on eBay. In the last 24-hours he's listed Apollos 9, 14, 16 & 17 autopenned crew lithos, plus a Shepard WSS. And they continue to receive bids, although low at this time. He continues to describe his lots as "100% authentic signed, not a copy or facsimilie." I've sent e-mails to three of his unfortunate winning bidders about them buying autopens described as authentic & the winner of his Apollo 10 autopenned crew litho has responded back. Besides the continued threat of better & better forgeries, our hobby is also being threatened by autopens & also by a new dangerous scam of prints of genuine items. Bob Mc. |
Frederic Janik Member Posts: 320 From: Helsinki, Finland Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 07-08-2004 01:49 PM
Bob,Being the recent father of a baby girl I don't have time to go inspect all closed sales from Westerntradersla but with correct info on which were autopens I'm ready to e-mail eBay with the lot numbers and a link to the autopen resource... With forgeries there's always a bit of subjectivity involved, but even eBay should be able to recognize many, many autopen patterns when we point them to them?!? Anyway, keep up the good fight Frederic |
spectramr2 New Member Posts: From: Registered:
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posted 07-08-2004 02:40 PM
i have purchased several items from this seller before. They are very reputable and have always been 100% honest with me. They have done private signings with several known atheletes and those dont come cheap. I think that it might be an honest error on their part so i wouldnt go around slandering them before you find out whats real and whats not. |
Bob M Member Posts: 1745 From: Atlanta-area, GA USA Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 07-08-2004 02:40 PM
Frederic, Congratulations on becoming a father. You're right - identifying autopens is different that identifying forgeries. Forgeries are subjective & can just be a matter of opinion & can be hard to prove. But autopens are relatively easy to identify and to prove as being APs. Lists of autopen examples are found in several locations on the Internet & it should be an easy matter for anyone (seller, bidder or buyer) to compare their examples to known AP examples & know for sure one way or another. But "Westerntradersla" is stubborn & may just not want to know. He had a good thing going until some concerned collectors stepped in & tried to stop him misrepresenting his signatures on eBay. As you asked, soon I'll Email you the list of the APs he's sold on eBay. BMc |
Andy McCulley Member Posts: 245 From: Lansdale, PA Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 07-08-2004 03:51 PM
Welcome to CollectSPACE, spectramr2;Judging by the fact that you just signed up with CollectSPACE today and your first post is coming to the defence of "Westerntradersla", my guess is that you have some relationship with him. And there's nothing wrong with that. With the possible exception that maybe the relationship is blurring your vision a bit. First, I would point out that no one has stated "Westerntradersla" sells only non-authentic items. To the contrary. And this same topic is being discussed on another collectors group and they came to the same conclusion. He has some genuine autographs as well as some autopens. Second, I don't doubt, as you state, that "Westerntradersla" has had signings with athletes and that that are expensive. Unfortunately, the subject matter is not athletes, its Astronauts. These were not acquired at one of their signings. And the only thing they have in common is the expensive part. Third, even I can match an autograph with autopen sample and determine whether or not they match. A professional autograph dealer should not have a problem. This issue of autopens was brought up to "Westerntradersla" in plenty of time for him to look at the autopen samples and see for himself and cancel the auction. As near as I can tell, "Westerntradersla" chose to take the money in lieu of the suggestion to investigate the authenticity. Just out of curiosity, do you know if "Westerntradersla" compared his autographs with the autopen samples? If not, rather then chastising diligent, reputable collectors perhaps, you could help "Westerntradersla" by suggesting that he do so. Because you are new to CollectSPACE, you may not be aware of the respect some of these folks command with regard to their knowledge and experience in the field of astronaut autograph identification. I don't happpen to one of them - rather, I am one of the collectors that depend of these knowledgable people. But the longer you are a member, the more you will come to realize the importance of people like Bob, Paul and some others. As well as what they are trying to accomplish in matters such as this. Again, welcome aboard and good luck with your collecting. |
spectramr2 New Member Posts: From: Registered:
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posted 07-08-2004 04:48 PM
Andy,Thank you for your insight. I do not have any relationship with them, rather I have just been a happy customer that has had nothing but good experiences from this company. Im sure that once they find out that they are truly indeed autopens, they will rectify the problem. Im not here to jump on anyone, rather point out that they are a decent company and will make it right if there is an issue. |
Andy McCulley Member Posts: 245 From: Lansdale, PA Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 07-08-2004 05:45 PM
Fair enough! However, there have been a number of people that have emailed this dealer and advised him of the problem and yet he continues to run his auctions. As a matter of fact, I just read on another board that "Westerntradersla" has either re-listed one of the crew photos, or listed another identical photo. So it seems "Westerntradersla" really doesn't care. I certainly respect what you are saying and am very glad that you had a good experience. I don't think the person that who spent $1,400+ for an autopen signature will feel the same. Have a nice day! |
Mike Dixon Member Posts: 1397 From: Kew, Victoria, Australia Registered: May 2003
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posted 07-08-2004 11:42 PM
"Im sure that once they find out that they are truly indeed autopens, they will rectify the problem. Im not here to jump on anyone, rather point out that they are a decent company and will make it right if there is an issue." That'll be interesting .... and in direct conflict with their stated policy of not accepting claims beyond a 48 hour period following the receipt of the goods.
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machbusterman Member Posts: 1778 From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland Registered: May 2004
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posted 07-09-2004 11:18 AM
quote: Originally posted by Andy McCulley: Fair enough! I don't think the person that who spent $1,400+ for an autopen signature will feel the same.Have a nice day!
I can happily say that the buyer HASN'T paid for the Apollo 11 crew "signed" litho. I emailed the buyer to alert him. He's worried about getting a negative feedback as a result of not completing the transaction... I put it into perspective for him though... "What would you rater have... ONE negative feedback comment or waste $1473 on an item that does not meet the item description?". Regards, Derek ***Collecting... its more than a hobby.... its a PASSION ) |
fabfivefreddy Member Posts: 1067 From: Leawood, Kansas USA Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 07-10-2004 12:58 AM
Too bad this type of behavior has no consequences. Any victims should report this to the Justice Department. Do not be intimidated by negative feedback threats by sellers. Report alleged crimes here: http://www1.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp Tahir |
Roman238 New Member Posts: From: Registered:
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posted 07-11-2004 02:07 PM
Wake up, people! Don't you realize that it's all about the money? And that eBay,(while they express concern),cares about nothing but profits? They even go to the extreme of protecting their power-sellers! By the way,...where exactly is this AP website? |
Bob M Member Posts: 1745 From: Atlanta-area, GA USA Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 07-13-2004 09:09 AM
Roman238 asked where an autopen Website can be found. One is right here on collectspace, but it's only a partial listing & doesn't include two astronauts who were active users of the autopen machine years ago: Tom Stafford & Ken Mattingly. You see a lot of autopens by those two, plus also a lot by Neil Armstrong, Alan Bean & John Young. Just go to "Resources," then "Identifing Autopens," then "Astronaut Autopen Gallery." Be sure to check out John Young's autopens, as the top example is the same style seen on at least three lithos (Apollo 10, Apollo 16 & WSS) sold by "westerntradersla." BMc |