Space News
space history and artifacts articles

Messages
space history discussion forums

Sightings
worldwide astronaut appearances

Resources
selected space history documents

  collectSPACE: Messages
  Space Events & Happenings
  Oh My Goodness! Life On Mars?

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Oh My Goodness! Life On Mars?
072069
Member

Posts: 206
From: Sayreville, NJ USA
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 03-01-2004 01:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 072069   Click Here to Email 072069     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Check out this recent story and read between the lines. Sounds like NASA has been keeping a lid on the major discoveries being made by the Rovers until they can reasonably sort it all out but it looks like something BIG will be revealed in an upcoming news conference. It could be life. It could be water. It could be something else, but it doesn't sound like it'll be trivial whatever way it goes.

Bernie
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/opportunity_evidence_040229.html

[This message has been edited by collectSPACE Admin (edited March 01, 2004).]

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 42986
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 03-01-2004 02:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From James Oberg and Alan Boyle for MSNBC:

quote:
Big news from Mars: After a weekend of escalating buzz, NASA has scheduled a rush news conference at 2 p.m. ET Tuesday at its Washington headquarters to announce dramatic new findings about water on Mars.

The specifics are being held back for the briefing, but clearly they have to do with evidence sent back from the Mars rovers relating to the role liquid water played — and may still be playing — on the Red Planet. If there is even a bit of salty liquid water beneath the surface of Mars, as hinted last month, that theoretically could open the way for life to exist there even today.

Among the clues are the threadlike features seen in some of the microscopic imagery, which could have been laid down by mineral-rich water percolating through the soil; the fine-layered appearance of Martian bedrock around Opportunity's landing site, which points toward a sedimentary origin; and fancifully nicknamed geological features such as blueberries and macaroni.

The rover missions' principal scientific investigator, Cornell astronomer Steve Squyres, will be among the speakers at Tuesday's briefing, NASA spokesman Don Savage told MSNBC.com. Arrangements for the briefing were firmed up over the weekend — and Savage said the plans were made so hastily because the news couldn't be held back much longer, "not that we would want to hold it." So stay tuned for the news as it happens, via MSNBC's live video coverage.


Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 42986
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 03-01-2004 08:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A collectSPACE reader was kind to forward (with permission to reprint) the comments of William K. Hartmann, Senior Scientist, Planetary Science Institute on what tomorrow's announcement might hold:

quote:
First, we're nowhere near a "Mars = dead planet" conclusion yet.  For example, the outcrop in this particular crater might be layers of bedded volcanic ash, as you say, but for all we know there might be a layer of limestone from an ancient seabed five feet below that!  So one outcrop does not a dead planet make.  

Second, in our five landings so far, this outcrop is a unique opportunity because it is the first place where we really look edge on at what seems to be bedrock layering.  We're SO lucky to have landed in this little crater, because the impact punched thru the strata and exposed it in the crater wall, but as I say, we see only a few layers of the stratigraphic column.  You couldn't judge all the strata of the Grand Canyon by what you see in the top few feet!   Other places, we looked at randomly scattered boulders (tossed there by impacts??), which seemed to be basically lava fragments.  Here are some examples of what we are looking for, and what might be found:

a:  it could be layers of dust blown in long ago and cemented into layers -- in which case the composition might be similar to all other soils and dust sampled so far in Mars lander missions.

b:  it could be layers of volcanic ash blown in and laid down in beds from some nearby eruption, perhaps from a volcano within 100 km.  Often on earth, ash beds are different composition than the lavas, and this might give us better understand of the range of volcanic eruption types on Mars. 

c:  it could be (to take a wild possibility) layer of limestone-like calcium carbonates, layed down in ancient lake beds.  This would be strong evidence of ancient lakes on Mars, and the question would shift to how long they lasted.  Were they just one-time ponds that evaporated in a month, or hundred-million year long lakes that were there for quite a while. 

I have no idea to what extent they are waiting for the best data or trying to resolve data-taking issues, but I'm sure they'd like to get a nice clean answer to what ever they find, to distinquish among these kinds of possibilities. 

To make another point:  its often said in science that it is hard to prove a negative.  For example, if we drive up to a rock in one of these sites and it is loaded with fossils (again an unlikely possiblity) that proves that, yes, there was life on Mars.  But if we drive up to 100 rocks and find no fossils, it does not prove that there was never life on Mars.  The negative conclusion usually materializes slowly as understanding gets better and better and we've looked in many kinds of environments. 

So this is really an exciting time -- we're assembling just the first bits of data on what kinds of bedrock outcrops exist on Mars!


Rodina
Member

Posts: 836
From: Lafayette, CA
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 03-01-2004 10:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rodina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From a source I trust, the announcement is going to be that the rover's wheels are squeezing out liquid water from mud which is then freezing in the tracks. The photographic evidence should be pretty convincing.

[This message has been edited by Rodina (edited March 01, 2004).]

Rodina
Member

Posts: 836
From: Lafayette, CA
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 03-02-2004 02:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rodina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

By the way, look how many Rear Haz-Cam pictures they took on Sol 53 from Spirit, and look how quickly they took them. Those pictures -- and the little divets they seemed to have dug with the wheels -- suggests that they were watching the mud freeze.

Boys, we've got water.

Philip
Member

Posts: 5952
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 03-02-2004 07:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
O.K. a Manned mission is a little bit closer ...

NC Apollo Fan
Member

Posts: 261
From: Belmont, NC USA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 03-02-2004 09:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NC Apollo Fan   Click Here to Email NC Apollo Fan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've not been following the missions very closely, nor do I have much general knowledge about Mars - so this might seem like a very basic question. What is the temperature on Mars - could liquid water exist just below the surface?

Jonathan

Rodina
Member

Posts: 836
From: Lafayette, CA
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 03-02-2004 10:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rodina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

By the way, is that Giant Shrimp still available?

DavidH
Member

Posts: 1217
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted 03-02-2004 11:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DavidH   Click Here to Email DavidH     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nope... the offer ended Sunday. I suspect Long John Silver's paid NASA off to hold the announcement until Tuesday.

------------------
"America's challenge of today has forged man's destiny of tomorrow." - Commander Eugene Cernan, Apollo 17 Mission, 11 December 1972

nojnj
Member

Posts: 503
From: Highland Heights, KY
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 03-02-2004 01:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nojnj   Click Here to Email nojnj     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My God! It's full of stars!

I find this all very exciting and am eagerly anticipating the news conference!

[This message has been edited by nojnj (edited March 02, 2004).]

tfetner
Member

Posts: 247
From: Birmingham Alabama USA
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 03-02-2004 01:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tfetner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does anyone know of a web based "radio" link where one could listen in?

NC Apollo Fan
Member

Posts: 261
From: Belmont, NC USA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 03-02-2004 01:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NC Apollo Fan   Click Here to Email NC Apollo Fan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe they actually FOUND a giant shrimp on Mars...

Scott
Member

Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001

posted 03-02-2004 02:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That soil they exposed when they dug with the wheels and took microphotographs definitely looks "moist" to me. Looks just like if you dug down into some beach sand that was dry on the surface. I don't know what else could cause that appearance aside from some kind of liquid.

[This message has been edited by Scott (edited March 02, 2004).]

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 42986
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 03-02-2004 02:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From NASA/JPL:
quote:
Opportunity Rover Finds Strong Evidence Meridiani Planum Was Wet
March 2, 2004

Scientists have concluded the part of Mars that NASA's Opportunity rover is exploring was soaking wet in the past.

Evidence the rover found in a rock outcrop led scientists to the conclusion. Clues from the rocks' composition, such as the presence of sulfates, and the rocks' physical appearance, such as niches where crystals grew, helped make the case for a watery history.

"Liquid water once flowed through these rocks. It changed their texture, and it changed their chemistry," said Dr. Steve Squyres of Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y., principal investigator for the science instruments on Opportunity and its twin, Spirit. "We've been able to read the tell-tale clues the water left behind, giving us confidence in that conclusion."

Dr. James Garvin, lead scientist for Mars and lunar exploration at NASA Headquarters, Washington, said, "NASA launched the Mars Exploration Rover mission specifically to check whether at least one part of Mars ever had a persistently wet environment that could possibly have been hospitable to life. Today we have strong evidence for an exciting answer: Yes."

Opportunity has more work ahead. It will try to determine whether, besides being exposed to water after they formed, the rocks may have originally been laid down by minerals precipitating out of solution at the bottom of a salty lake or sea.

The first views Opportunity sent of its landing site in Mars' Meridiani Planum region five weeks ago delighted researchers at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., because of the good fortune to have the spacecraft arrive next to an exposed slice of bedrock on the inner slope of a small crater.

The robotic field geologist has spent most of the past three weeks surveying the whole outcrop, and then turning back for close-up inspection of selected portions. The rover found a very high concentration of sulfur in the outcrop with its alpha particle X-ray spectrometer, which identifies chemical elements in a sample. "The chemical form of this sulfur appears to be in magnesium, iron or other sulfate salts," said Dr. Benton Clark of Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver. "Elements that can form chloride or even bromide salts have also been detected."

At the same location, the rover's Moessbauer spectrometer, which identifies iron-bearing minerals, detected a hydrated iron sulfate mineral called jarosite. Germany provided both the alpha particle X- ray spectrometer and the Moessbauer spectrometer. Opportunity's miniature thermal emission spectrometer has also provided evidence for sulfates.

On Earth, rocks with as much salt as this Mars rock either have formed in water or, after formation, have been highly altered by long exposures to water. Jarosite may point to the rock's wet history having been in an acidic lake or an acidic hot springs environment.

The water evidence from the rocks' physical appearance comes in at least three categories, said Dr. John Grotzinger, sedimentary geologist from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge: indentations called "vugs," spherules and crossbedding.

Pictures from the rover's panoramic camera and microscopic imager reveal the target rock, dubbed "El Capitan," is thoroughly pocked with indentations about a centimeter (0.4 inch) long and one-fourth or less that wide, with apparently random orientations. This distinctive texture is familiar to geologists as the sites where crystals of salt minerals form within rocks that sit in briny water. When the crystals later disappear, either by erosion or by dissolving in less-salty water, the voids left behind are called vugs, and in this case they conform to the geometry of possible former evaporite minerals.

Round particles the size of BBs are embedded in the outcrop. From shape alone, these spherules might be formed from volcanic eruptions, from lofting of molten droplets by a meteor impact, or from accumulation of minerals coming out of solution inside a porous, water-soaked rock. Opportunity's observations that the spherules are not concentrated at particular layers in the outcrop weigh against a volcanic or impact origin, but do not completely rule out those origins.

Layers in the rock that lie at an angle to the main layers, a pattern called crossbedding, can result from the action of wind or water. Preliminary views by Opportunity hint the crossbedding bears hallmarks of water action, such as the small scale of the crossbedding and possible concave patterns formed by sinuous crestlines of underwater ridges.

The images obtained to date are not adequate for a definitive answer. So scientists plan to maneuver Opportunity closer to the features for a better look. "We have tantalizing clues, and we're planning to evaluate this possibility in the near future," Grotzinger said.


John K. Rochester
Member

Posts: 1292
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 03-02-2004 05:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for John K. Rochester   Click Here to Email John K. Rochester     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Did any of you see the commercial where the Rovers "car alarm" goes off and little Green guys are running away with a wheel?.. Or did I imagine that in a drunkin' stupor??

Wehaveliftoff
Member

Posts: 2343
From:
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 03-03-2004 12:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wehaveliftoff     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That Awesome commercial is from Diet Pepsi.
It's the greatest one so far this year, next to the Tiger Woods/American Express one doing a direct spoof from "Caddyshack,"where he pulls a H2O hose & blows up gopher holes
over half the course. Tiger hands over his credit card to the hired guy who plays Kenny Loggins song "I'm alright" over a boom box & the gopher comes out to jig to the song & they grab him in a potato sack. FUNNY

tegwilym
Member

Posts: 2331
From: Sturgeon Bay, WI
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-03-2004 01:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ha! I like it.
http://playlist.yahoo.com/makestream.dll?id=5803524


Tom

Scott
Member

Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001

posted 03-03-2004 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Tom! That's funny.

All times are CT (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | The Source for Space History & Artifacts

Copyright 2020 collectSPACE.com All rights reserved.


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47a





advertisement