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  IIyushin 1st in space: Fact or Fiction?

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Author Topic:   IIyushin 1st in space: Fact or Fiction?
dbeigie
Member

Posts: 160
From: Seattle, WA USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 10-11-2003 11:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dbeigie   Click Here to Email dbeigie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was surfing the Web and stumpled across speculation that another Soviet by the name of Sergei Vladimir IIyushin was launched into space before Gagarin.

According to the discussion, Ilyushin returned from space disoriented and Soviet leaders decided to publicize Gagarin's mission a few days later.

Anyone heard of this and have a perspective?

Is this possibly true... or hogwash?

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 42986
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 10-12-2003 12:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hogwash.

http://www.astronautix.com/astros/ilyushin.htm

dbeigie
Member

Posts: 160
From: Seattle, WA USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 10-12-2003 10:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dbeigie   Click Here to Email dbeigie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Or perhaps Robert, you are part of the coverup?

... Just kidding. Thanks for the additional information.

Shuttlefan
Member

Posts: 173
From: 41366 Schwalmtal, Germany
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 10-12-2003 04:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Shuttlefan   Click Here to Email Shuttlefan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi dbeigie,
I just read the book "Fallen astronauts" by Burgess and Doolan with contributions of Bert Vis and there is some information in chapter 4 about those rumours about pre-Gagarin cosmonauts. Especially Ilyushin is mentioned (p. 160) and it is lined out why he surely was n o t an early space travel victim. According to Vis´ convincing arguments the case about those ´dead cosmonauts´ is done.

nelyubov
Member

Posts: 131
From: USA
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 10-16-2003 08:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for nelyubov   Click Here to Email nelyubov     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Even though the Vladimir Illyushin theory may not be true -- Pravda or its new title only recently -- within the last two years --has admitted for the first time that several men may have perished on sub-orbital flights in the late 1950's. This was the first time a Russian newspaper has ever run a story about the possibilty of "possible" cosmonauts before Gagarin. The mystery is certainly still "ALIVE".

pokey
Member

Posts: 361
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 10-16-2003 12:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pokey   Click Here to Email pokey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oberg has a write up on Soviet space myths that mentions the Ilyushin story.
http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 42986
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 10-16-2003 12:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nelyubov:
has admitted for the first time that several men may have perished on sub-orbital flights in the late 1950's

Who are they to admit anything? Last time I looked, they had no official standing on controlling state secrets or had more expertise than those who run Rosaviakosmos or RSC Energia, both of whom have stated unequivocally that Gagarin was not only the first cosmonaut in space, he was the first to be launched.

Regardless, the story of failed Russian suborbital flights is a badly written urban legend. Mitkov, Shiborin, and Ledovsky never lived to die in flight. Literally, the three never existed. They were first (and only) reported as suborbital fatalities in 1959 by an Italian tabloid.

[This message has been edited by Robert Pearlman (edited October 16, 2003).]

dtemple
Member

Posts: 729
From: Longview, Texas, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 10-17-2003 09:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dtemple   Click Here to Email dtemple     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If there were fatalities in Soviet sub-orbital attempts, why then, did they follow up with a more risky orbital mission for Gagarin? I think we would now know without a doubt if these old rumors were true. What gave these rumors credibility as I recall were the retouched photos of the first cosmonaut group. If I remember correctly, three were kicked out of the program in 1960, and their images were removed from the group photo.

eurospace
Member

Posts: 2610
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 10-17-2003 09:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for eurospace   Click Here to Email eurospace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dtemple:
If I remember correctly, three were kicked out of the program in 1960, and their images were removed from the group photo.

But those were not the names quoted in the context of the alleged sub-orbital fatalities.


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Jürgen P Esders
Berlin, Germany
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Astroaddies

Ed beck
Member

Posts: 227
From: Florida
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 10-17-2003 11:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ed beck   Click Here to Email Ed beck     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey! Let's face it. This is just one of those situations where it is just fun to believe. Sometimes the truth is too boring. Next your going to tell me that Lee Harvey Oswald was the sole gunman in the JFK assassination, no flying saucer crashed in Roswell New Mexico, and that there is no tooth fairy. OK, maybe there is'nt a tooth fairy, but it is just fun to believe, in spite of what the facts may show. Or, depending on the credability of those "facts", what they don't show.

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"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." Psalms 19:1 NIV

dtemple
Member

Posts: 729
From: Longview, Texas, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 10-17-2003 11:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dtemple   Click Here to Email dtemple     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Read this from Jim Oberg's website. www.igs.net/~hwt/oberg/deadcosm.htm
If this direct link does not work just go to www.jamesoberg.com/ and then click on UFOs & spaceage myths. Afterwards, scroll to "Dead Cosmonauts, Gemini UFOs and Others". The first link here is about dead cosmonauts.

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