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Author Topic:   Skylab 3 USS New Orleans recovery cover
kosmo
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posted 04-16-2021 05:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kosmo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Has anyone seen this Skylab 3 USS New Orleans recovery cover before? Any info would be appreciated.

yeknom-ecaps
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From: Northville MI USA
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posted 04-16-2021 07:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yeknom-ecaps   Click Here to Email yeknom-ecaps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There was a set of these types of covers for the Skylab missions.

They were taken aboard the prime recovery ship by Dr. Ben Ramkissoon, a well-known astrophilatelist.

Some collectors refer to these as captain's covers but they are not as the covers were not commissioned by the ship's captain nor printed by the ship print shop. There are no "true" captain's covers for the Skylab missions.

They are a nice set of covers to obtain and are popular among collectors.

Apollo-Soyuz
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posted 04-24-2021 07:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Apollo-Soyuz   Click Here to Email Apollo-Soyuz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The post offices on the recovery ships were closed on the day of recovery. It opened the following day. The next day cancel is valid showing cover was on the ship.

Pete Sarmiento
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From: Fort Washington, MD, USA
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posted 04-24-2021 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pete Sarmiento   Click Here to Email Pete Sarmiento     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have two of these covers with two different dates — one Sept. 24, and the other is Sept. 26 from the USS New Orleans. I also have a Skylab III from the USS New Orleans — Captain covers?

yeknom-ecaps
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posted 04-24-2021 05:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yeknom-ecaps   Click Here to Email yeknom-ecaps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No — Ben Ramkissoon had them printed and taken aboard the ships. The ship's captains nor the ship's print shop did not have anything to with them.

Ken Havekotte
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posted 04-24-2021 06:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've got the same type recovery ship covers, but didn't know that Ben had done them himself.

Mine came from Dr. Paul Buchanan when he was working the splashdown event aboard the prime Navy carrier(s). At the time he was NASA's Life Sciences Director and a medical doctor here at Kennedy.

I have always been under the impression, from seeing his other later Apollo and Skylab material of letters written, etc., that the covers came from the ship directly. Thanks for the correction.

yeknom-ecaps
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From: Northville MI USA
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posted 04-24-2021 08:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yeknom-ecaps   Click Here to Email yeknom-ecaps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It was at one of the earliest COMPEX shows I attended that Ben described the story of those covers at the Space Unit meeting. He did say that he gave many of them out to the members of the crew and other VIPs aboard the ship.

Ross
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posted 05-17-2021 10:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ross   Click Here to Email Ross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I thought I'd show the other covers in this group. The first one is from the day before the recovery.

The next is the one from Skylab 4.

Finally we have a slightly different one from Skylab 3.

Why is this cover, from Steve Durst's CD book, different? Because it was postmarked on shore and not on the ship. The ship's PO was closed on the day and all mail was postmarked ashore. The final proof that it was done ashore is the Beck designed Navy rubber stamp cachet. Unlike the postmarker, this device was never aboard the USS New Orleans, which shows the cover was done on shore.

This leaves one question in my mind. Why does this particular cover seem to be rarer than the other three? I've only ever seen one, the one from Steve Durst's excellent CD book yet I've seen several of the others. We may never know.

Ken Havekotte
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From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
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posted 05-17-2021 11:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From Ross' recent post above, that's why I was curious about the origin of the SL-3 USS New Orleans posted covers of that type. One of mine, like above, has the Beck designed Navy rubber stamp cachet but mine is applied on the back left-side of the cover!

But not at all to dispute Ben's description of the special covers decades ago, I understand he did have the covers onboard with him since he had Navy permission to board the ship as an observer or pressman during the week-long(+) SL-3 recovery voyage, correct?

If the covers were on the USS New Orleans in Sept. 1973 at sea, could it be possible that none were actually posted until the covers were either air lifted off the aircraft carrier to Hawaii or when the vessel docked into its harbor destination?

At that time, all covers from the ship were processed, cancelled, and mailed out.

I don't know why Ben didn't include an additional notation on each cover attesting to the fact that the covers were indeed onboard the Skylab recovery ship and signed by him. Wouldn't that be a great documentation and of his personal involvement in the project?

yeknom-ecaps
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From: Northville MI USA
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posted 05-17-2021 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yeknom-ecaps   Click Here to Email yeknom-ecaps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ben was aboard the ships as part of the medical team!

Yes Ken, it would have been great if Ben had noted that they were aboard the ship AND signed by a member of the recovery team - Ben himself!

Ben would give quite the smirk when collectors would mention them as "captain's covers" then he would tell them the real background.

On the RSC, Ben said he left covers to get the RSC (i.e. to be postmarked on shore) and Ben assumed the covers were somehow divided up to apply the RSC as different people placed the RSC on the covers in their own way/location as there was no standard way to do it. The others he had with him on the ship.

Pete Sarmiento
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From: Fort Washington, MD, USA
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posted 05-17-2021 03:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pete Sarmiento   Click Here to Email Pete Sarmiento     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have one of the USS New Orleans, canceled on Sept. 26, 1973 a.m. Now I see, three covers with Sept. 24, 25, and 26.

Ken Havekotte
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posted 05-17-2021 03:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow! I didn't know that Ben had been an official medical recovery team member; that's quite impressive Tom. I don't know why Ben never told me that, but I guess, I'd never asked him!

Getting back to the USS New Orleans hand cancels on the covers, though, did Ben say they were in fact applied on the ship or at the onshore fleet (MSRF) post office?

yeknom-ecaps
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From: Northville MI USA
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posted 05-17-2021 04:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yeknom-ecaps   Click Here to Email yeknom-ecaps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ben said he went to the PO and had postmarks applied "on the ship."

That said, I would guess that the "mailed" ones with address and RSC were not on the ship but submitted and cancelled on shore with all the other RSC covers.

Ken Havekotte
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posted 05-17-2021 05:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The cover below, though not related to SL-3, was interesting to note, or at least for me! It came from the same space collection owned by Dr. Paul Buchanan, Director of NASA's Life Sciences here at KSC (see one of the above postings that I had reported about).

Perhaps not a big deal or nothing, I did note that the #10 size envelope had been machine cancelled a day after Apollo 17's prime recovery ship, USS Ticonderoga, had recovered spacecraft America and crew. To the best of my knowledge, I don't recall seeing a ship cancellation as this, along with a cancel slogan of CVS-14 for a later Apollo recovery event. Or perhaps my memory is just fading more of these older days of mine.

For those space ship cancel experts, guys, is this anything unusual? I am thinking the plain cover, with only a white letter paper-sheet inside with no other cover markings, may had been with Dr. Buchanan while he was a member of the ship's medical recovery team for Apollo 17 and posted onboard the aircraft carrier's postal station on Dec. 20th, a day after the ocean recovery on Dec. 19th, since the post office had been closed on the splashdown day.

yeknom-ecaps
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posted 05-17-2021 06:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yeknom-ecaps   Click Here to Email yeknom-ecaps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes Ken, cancels for the 20th means the cover was aboard the ship. The recovery helicopter covers all have that date with machine cancels.

kosmo
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posted 05-17-2021 08:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kosmo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don’t know if this helps the discussion in anyway, but the cover I posted was from the collection of an AP photographer aboard the USS New Orleans at the time of the recovery.

Ken Havekotte
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posted 05-17-2021 09:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mine were also aboard the ship, kosmo, coming from a medical doctor recovery team leader that had been assigned to the later Apollo and Skylab prime recovery ships at sea.

So its quite likely that Ben distributed his covers to others on the team and elsewhere, it would appear. But I wonder why I never saw an article or mention of them at the time when Ben was writing for a couple of major astrophilately journals.

yeknom-ecaps
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posted 05-17-2021 09:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yeknom-ecaps   Click Here to Email yeknom-ecaps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ben stated that he gave many of the covers to those on board the ship.

kosmo
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posted 05-18-2021 10:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kosmo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With so many of these covers being handed out, are they common? Does anyone have an idea of the number of covers that were produced?

Ken Havekotte
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posted 05-18-2021 01:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No, I would say not common, but perhaps Tom knows how many, or even a good estimate, of those that Ben had with him on the carrier.

yeknom-ecaps
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From: Northville MI USA
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posted 05-18-2021 02:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yeknom-ecaps   Click Here to Email yeknom-ecaps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Definitely not common. Ben never said how many and I never asked, but since envelopes are typically boxes of 500, I would guess 500 (or less likely 1000) were made for each mission.

Like Ken, I have never seen an article about the "Ben" recovery covers. Though I don't remember seeing any articles about the printed ASTP ship covers that Sean Marsar produced either.

kosmo
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posted 05-18-2021 08:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kosmo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Would Dr. Ben Ramkissoon have had all the covers cancelled before handing them out or was it up to the recipients to have them canceled?

kosmo
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posted 05-18-2021 08:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kosmo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry I see this was answered. Asking someone at the PO to apply 500 hand cancels just seems like a lot.

kosmo
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posted 05-18-2021 09:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kosmo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Would Dr. Ben Ramkissoon have had all the covers cancelled before handing them out or was it up to the recipients to have them canceled?

Ken Havekotte
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posted 05-18-2021 10:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am thinking that Ben personally handled all the covers he had onboard, rather addressed or not, in getting their postal cancellations for everyone in his group.

I don't know for sure, in asking another question, if those covers were addressed before or during the ship's voyage.

I'm under the impression that before Ben boarded the USS New Orleans, his private SL-3 recovery emblem covers may had been already addressed by the same typewriter machine.

There may be a chance, though, that the envelopes had not been addressed prior to the ship leaving port if Ben was able to carry a small or portable typewriter onboard with him at sea.

Since the ocean voyage took several days, Ben would have plenty of time in getting them addressed while at sea for later cancel applications.

In either case, it's really a fascinating "personal" recovery ship project for Ben since he was an official on-board member of the NASA/Navy medical group for SL-3. That is so cool!

yeknom-ecaps
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posted 05-18-2021 11:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yeknom-ecaps   Click Here to Email yeknom-ecaps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Don't know.

My guess is he had them cancelled before handing them out otherwise we would likely find some "blank" covers with no cancels exist and I have never seen or heard of one.

Ben likely arranged to have them cancelled soon after arrival on the ship (or even before arrival), let the postal clerk(s) have a certain number as a gift for doing them, etc.

Since the collector mailed covers were canceled on shore, the ship post office only handled requests from those aboard the ship thus would likely be able to handle Ben's request if they could plan ahead for it.

kosmo
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posted 05-19-2021 10:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kosmo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fascinating, thank you both for all the info. I’m fairly new to “cover” collecting and find the back story to these covers really interesting.

Pete Sarmiento
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posted 05-20-2021 09:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pete Sarmiento   Click Here to Email Pete Sarmiento     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The envelope canceled on Sept. 24, 1973, I gave him my mailing label. On the envelope canceled on Sept. 26, 1973, he actually used a peel off label addressed to me.

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