posted 09-28-2013 11:01 AM               

I have researched and found only the dark brown winged eagle everywhere. Does anybody know what the light brown winged one is? An error? Variant? Flown? Unflown? Thanks everyone!

posted 09-28-2013 06:06 PM               

I understand that these were silk-screened and thus subject to a lot of variation due to the inherent nature of the process. However, the difference here is more than the typical differences one sees between patches of the same mission, and I find it somewhat troubling.

I bought A from Donnis Willis, and am thus confident in its authenticity. I bought B from an eBay seller. I have been intending to raise the question whether or not there might be someone out there producing fakes (though using genuine beta cloth). Note that I have no evidence to support this suspicion other than the evidence shown here. It's just a hunch.

posted 09-29-2013 03:52 AM               

Those show clear differences in the design beyond simple variations in ink application. This would imply the designs having been re-done at some stage between production runs of beta cloth patches or, as mode1charlie mentions, the possibility that someone has had replicas printed in modern times.

We've seen rolls of unused beta cloth sold at some space auctions in the past so the raw material is out there.

A year or two ago the prices of beta cloths climbed sky high but there has been a very strong supply of patches more recently that has brought the prices back down. Hopefully that extra supply wasn't actually produced in order to take advantage of the demand.

posted 09-30-2013 04:10 PM               

However, if we are to assume the other is of dubious integrity, then they've been around for a while. Goldberg sold three autopen signed Apollo 17 betas in 2008 (sale 49, lots 111, 112 and 158) one matching the patch on the left and the other two resembling the patch on the right.

Of the last five sold on ebay, two match the patch on the left and three the patch on the right.

It strikes me that the Apollo 17 beta seems to show the most variation in print probably because the design is the most intricate and, as a consequence, the most difficult to register. There seems to have been at least 10 inks used in the printing process.

posted 10-04-2013 08:32 PM               

I’ve been a screen printer for nearly 15 years now. I was asking some people around the shop what they thought about this. Our general manager, who has been in the business since the 80’s, doesn’t think multi head auto presses were in use then, neither were flash units. My supervisor and I, who have had a lot of experience with manual presses, tend to agree they were done from two different art sources.

I think 8 colors are present. I think I’m seeing stars in different positions in the two. The color difference in the outer ring, could be due to a difference in ink batches. We don’t know how the screens were made, or exposed, there could be a difference in the screens shot or cut for different presses, as I’m sure more than one was utilized for a big one time run for these things.

That being said, we use modern plastisol inks almost exclusively. The GM had never heard of questral inks. We have no idea of how questral inks behave when printed or how they are cured. That can have a huge effect on the finished look of the ink. Were they having to cure the ink between colors, and then reregister? I’ve noticed the registration on a LOT of these is not great. Even the ones that were flown sometimes look like something that wouldn’t leave our shop. Sometimes, ink can dry in the screen through the course of a run, changing the contours of the fill areas. If the questrals were air dry inks, this would be quite possible.

Also, I just noticed on Chris’ site on the Beta cloth page, that Corning did a later run of the entire series, and as I think I recall from an earlier thread, some were made up for “From the Earth to the Moon”, but I can’t recall if we confirmed HOW authentically those were made.

posted 10-05-2013 11:12 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Jfoust:
I've wondered about some of these issues with Beta patches for a while now.

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