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Author Topic:   Unauthorized patches (e.g. Soyuz TMA-14)
hoorenz
Member

Posts: 1031
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 04-15-2009 06:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hoorenz   Click Here to Email hoorenz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Take a look at this. No idea what the original source is (embroidery wise) - but it has been spotted for sale in Houston as well...

ShuttleDiscovery
Member

Posts: 152
From:
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 04-15-2009 06:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ShuttleDiscovery     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What? People are making patches and making money out if my design!?

Where in Houston is it being sold? Is it a website or an actual shop?

hoorenz
Member

Posts: 1031
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 04-15-2009 06:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hoorenz   Click Here to Email hoorenz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No idea ShuttleDiscovery. Someone in Houston told me he had seen it for sale somewhere near JSC.

Anyway, it is one of the earliest designs you posted here and the embroidered patch (I have seen one) looks really horrible. Not because of your design, but because they obviously did not care.

I am not that sure they actually make money out of it. It must have cost something to produce this and I can not imagine they sell a lot of it, since it was only a proposal.

I tried to trace who "Randy Hunted" it (that is what we call this kind of practice), but I was unable to find out who actually made it. It has to be someone who is visiting this forum, but did not quite understand what this TMA-14 competition was all about.

They (the German shop) also have an STS-119 with Wakata in the early position - Robert believes the image was actually taken from this website. Maybe this German web shop can shed some light on the source.

ShuttleDiscovery
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Posts: 152
From:
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 04-15-2009 06:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ShuttleDiscovery     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks. I sent them an email asking why they are selling my design without permission.

KSCartist
Member

Posts: 2896
From: Titusville, FL USA
Registered: Feb 2005

posted 04-15-2009 09:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KSCartist   Click Here to Email KSCartist     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I went through the exact same thing with Randy back in 2005 when the story (including draft design images) about designing the Expedition. 11 patch was posted on Erik's and Jacques' website.

Today it's just too easy to click and paste your way and swipe someone's hard work. Randy and I eventually reached an agreement but it was an unpleasant introduction to say the least.

If you receive a reply - it will be along the lines of "someone sent us the artwork - said they created it and asked us to have patches made."

I do "feel your pain."

ShuttleDiscovery
Member

Posts: 152
From:
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 04-16-2009 03:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ShuttleDiscovery     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK, here's the email I sent them:
This patch is my design, of which you have no authority to reproduce. Please remove it from sale immediately or contact me regarding royalties that are due to me. You are making money from my design.

If you are not manufacturing this patch yourself please supply me with details of your supplier.

And here's the reply I got this morning:
Good Morning Mr. Warneck, thank you for this information.

As I do not know you, I ask you to send me more information concerning your claim. I do of course not reproduce patches; I bought these from an official source in the USA. I have removed the patch from my website until the situation is cleared.

Does anyone know what I should do now? Thanks.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 42984
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 04-16-2009 04:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You can refer the German dealer to the Roscosmos website, where you are identified as the artist, as well as to articles (such as our own) that describe the contest.

I would then think the next question is clear: that they please identify, specifically, the source of the patch in the United States.

hoorenz
Member

Posts: 1031
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 04-16-2009 04:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hoorenz   Click Here to Email hoorenz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ShuttleDiscovery:
Does anyone know what I should do now?
There might be one small complication to consider: by entering this design into the Russian competition, you might have given up (some of) your rights. In which case the patch maker might be violating the rights of Roscosmos instead of yours.

ShuttleDiscovery
Member

Posts: 152
From:
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 04-16-2009 06:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ShuttleDiscovery     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hoorenz:
In which case the patch maker might be violating the rights of Roscosmos instead of yours.
While that may be the case, it's my first design that has been made into a patch, not my final version submitted to the Roscosmos website. The only way they could have got the design is through collectSPACE.

Meanwhile, here is the reply I sent to the German:

The design you are selling is a copy of my first design, created for a competition run by the Russian Space Agency to design the mission patch for Soyuz TMA-14. This design was submitted to this site for comment. The final design that was actually submitted can be seen on this Russian site (near the bottom of the page). I'd like to know from whom you purchased the patches in the USA, so I can inform them of my copyright violation. I would appreciate it if you can refrain from selling this patch in the future.

Harald Kraenzel
Member

Posts: 304
From: Dinslaken,Germany
Registered: Nov 2005

posted 04-16-2009 09:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harald Kraenzel   Click Here to Email Harald Kraenzel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ShuttleDiscovery, as I am a native German I would like to ask you whether I can be of help? Please let me know. Good luck.

ShuttleDiscovery
Member

Posts: 152
From:
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 04-16-2009 10:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ShuttleDiscovery     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Harald Kraenzel:
As I am a native German I would like to ask you whether I can be of help?
Thanks for your kindness. However, it appears the German website got the patches from the USA (I'm guessing the same place in Houston Erik mentioned), so I don't think I need any help from your end.

hoorenz
Member

Posts: 1031
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 04-16-2009 10:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hoorenz   Click Here to Email hoorenz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Houston shop also got them from a third source. They believed it came from Florida. That's all I know.

ShuttleDiscovery
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Posts: 152
From:
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 04-16-2009 11:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ShuttleDiscovery     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm guessing both are stores near JSC and KSC? Can you please give me details about the Houston shop?

hoorenz
Member

Posts: 1031
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 04-16-2009 11:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hoorenz   Click Here to Email hoorenz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No, I am sorry, I have no more info. The German shop should know the source.

ShuttleDiscovery
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Posts: 152
From:
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 04-16-2009 12:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ShuttleDiscovery     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In that case can you please tell me who informed you about the Houston (and Florida) shops so I can pursue this further?

hoorenz
Member

Posts: 1031
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 04-16-2009 01:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hoorenz   Click Here to Email hoorenz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It was a discussion I had some 2 months ago with someone. I will ask around, but it could take some time.

ShuttleDiscovery
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Posts: 152
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Registered: Feb 2007

posted 04-16-2009 01:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ShuttleDiscovery     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you. I'm still waiting for a reply from the German site.

KSCartist
Member

Posts: 2896
From: Titusville, FL USA
Registered: Feb 2005

posted 04-16-2009 01:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KSCartist   Click Here to Email KSCartist     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just know it's not me. Since I was burned once, I will never burn someone else.

Bill Hunt
Member

Posts: 399
From: Irvine, CA
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 04-16-2009 02:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bill Hunt   Click Here to Email Bill Hunt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hoorenz:
They (the German shop) also have an STS-119 with Wakata in the early position.
Not to change the subject, but do you have a link to this patch for sale there? I couldn't find it. I'd like to get my hands on one. Or is there a supplier in the U.S. that's making them, or a Houston store that has them?

ShuttleDiscovery
Member

Posts: 152
From:
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 04-16-2009 02:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ShuttleDiscovery     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Hunt:
I couldn't find it.
I couldn't find it either. They told me that they bought my patch from the USA, so it's likely that most of their patches come from there. I'm trying to get more information on their sources.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 42984
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 04-16-2009 02:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Hunt:
Or is there a supplier in the U.S. that's making them, or a Houston store that has them?
I found the patch (as pictured under the STS-119 topic) at Space Center Souvenirs (710 W NASA Road One, Webster, TX 77598; 281-332-5051). I do not believe they have a website.

(I did ask who their supplier was and they said someone in Florida, so it seems all of these unofficial/unauthorized patches are stemming from the same source.)

ShuttleDiscovery
Member

Posts: 152
From:
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 04-16-2009 02:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ShuttleDiscovery     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for your information Robert. I have a feeling this seller in Texas also has my patch if their supplier is in Florida.

If anyone has seen this patch being sold or knows of any manufacturers in Florida and/or Texas please tell me.

hoorenz
Member

Posts: 1031
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 04-16-2009 02:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hoorenz   Click Here to Email hoorenz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Hunt:
Not to change the subject, but do you have a link to this patch for sale there?
Here is the link to the STS-119 Wakata.

MARKW
New Member

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posted 04-18-2009 10:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MARKW   Click Here to Email MARKW     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The link to the STS-119 Wakata site is only in German. Anybody know how to translate German?

bernoullis
Member

Posts: 12
From: UK
Registered: Feb 2009

posted 04-19-2009 07:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bernoullis   Click Here to Email bernoullis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Harald Kraenzel, who is a "native German", has already offered his services in this thread.

Voyager1975
Member

Posts: 188
From:
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 04-19-2009 09:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voyager1975   Click Here to Email Voyager1975     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is this STS-119 patch with Wakata in the center of the patch an AB Emblem patch? If not did AB Emblem ever produce these early versions of this patch or not?

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 42984
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 04-19-2009 10:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The only patches created by AB Emblem with Wakata's name central to the insignia was for the crew members' review. They were never offered to the public.

The patch under discussion by this thread was (apparently) created by or for an entity based in Florida.

SparkR_13
Member

Posts: 102
From: Martinsburg, WV 25401, USA
Registered: Dec 2010

posted 07-20-2011 01:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SparkR_13   Click Here to Email SparkR_13     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I obtained one of these TMA-14 patches that were unathorized and when researching I found these comments. First, I send my regrets of course for the crime that was committed upon you and I hope that someday you get justice.

Second, I wish to say it was and is a very nice design, even though it was not submitted and was your original thoughts, well done!

And third, my email is shown, so if possible I would like contact from the designer, so that when asked about the patch or if I show it others I can give credit where credit is due and his thoughts upon the design he created.

benguttery
Member

Posts: 547
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2005

posted 07-20-2011 01:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for benguttery   Click Here to Email benguttery     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We seem to have danced a long time around the name of this patch maker. He is Tom Foley also known as Cape Kennedy Medals or Cape Kennedy Mint. He produces patches for retail souvenir sales and eBay. Space Center Souvenirs in Webster, Texas buy patches from him.

hoorenz
Member

Posts: 1031
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 07-20-2011 01:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hoorenz   Click Here to Email hoorenz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SparkR_13:
...even though it was not submitted and was your original thoughts, well done!
Actually, it was submitted to Roscosmos. But it was not chosen.

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