posted 11-15-2013 07:52 AM               

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find very much information about these patches on the internet, on the Crew Patches and Space Patch Database websites, or on this forum. So I'd appreciate any help you can give me in my attempt to identify vintage examples of this particular patch.

I currently own two versions of this patch. One is 4 inches (103mm) in width with a cloth back, and the other is 3-3/8 inches (86mm) in width with a plastic back. I assume that both were manufactured by A-B Emblems, although I don't know this for sure.

The smaller example on the left was purchased (by me, not my father) in the late 1980's at JSC, as my first attempt to fill the hole in my dad's collection. The sales brochure for this patch (which I still have) describes it as the "large" version even though it is only 3-3/8 inches in width. There was no "small" version available. It appears to be identical in design and size to older vintage (cloth backed?) examples that show up on eBay from time to time, like this one on the right manufactured by A-B Emblems (according to the back of the package):

My first question is: were commercially available Apollo-Soyuz program patches by A-B Emblems (as in the eBay example above) always of this design and 3-3/8 inch size? Or were larger (4 inch) versions of this patch commercially available from A-B? Notice that the package does not say that this is a "souvenir" version of the patch, as vintage packages often did with the 3 inch Apollo patches.

Regarding the larger (4 inch) cloth backed Apollo-Soyuz patch from my collection (on the right in the photo at the top of this post): it resembles the patch worn in the Apollo-Soyuz crew photo here.

The official crew patches in the NASA photo and the patch from my collection both have a squared Cyrillic "3" character unlike the more rounded "3" on the smaller 3-3/8 inch patch. At the same time, however, there appear to be some differences between the patches in the NASA photo and the 4 inch patch from my collection. Notice, for instance, the distance between the ends of the Cyrillic "C" character. In the NASA photo the distance appears to be smaller than the distance on the patch in my collection. You may notice other differences -- if so, please post them.

This leads to my second question, which is: do any collectors on this forum have examples of flown Apollo-Soyuz program patches they can show, or patches from "official" NASA presentations from 1975? I'd like to learn how to identify a legitimate "crew" (or NASA) example (which I assume was 4 inches in width) from an early 4 inch cloth-backed "commercial" example -- assuming such a commercial version of the patch exists.

So to sum up, I'm trying to determine whether the 4-inch version of this patch in my collection is the same version of the patch that was given to NASA employees (and the crew?) at the time of the mission, and can thus legitimately fill the hole in my dad's collection.

Was this 4 inch version of the patch also available commercially? If so, I have a final question: do any of you have a 4 inch cloth-backed example still in its original commercial packaging that you can post for comparison?

posted 11-15-2013 02:21 PM               

What do you think?

On the other hand, it does look like the one Stafford is wearing, which doesn't seem to resemble the others in some respects...

posted 11-18-2013 08:23 PM               

It, too, is 4 inches in width and appears to match the one on the right at the top of this thread.

posted 07-14-2014 02:18 AM               

I would like to note that there is also a 3" version of this variation as well. Note the border stitching technique:

posted 07-14-2014 06:22 PM               

The patches worn in the crew photo linked above appear to be distinct from the A-B Emblem patches (and the patches with the CM/SM with border embroidery):

The CM/SM is very narrow, only marginally wider than the docking module and Soyuz. The "3" (Z) in Soyuz is curved but the gap between the endpoints is narrower than the A-B Emblem version. The top serif on the "A" is much wider than A-B's.

Does that mean there are three versions discussed in this thread?

• A-B Emblem souvenir
  
• Crew photo version
  
• Flown souvenir version

In other ASTP training photos, Kubasov's jumpsuit lacks the ASTP patch altogether and Leonov's is sporting a 3" version of the ASTP patch, which is why the group photo appears to have a patch affixed over it:

Leonov with smaller ASTP patch: ASTP training photo at NASA Spaceflight archives.

posted 08-19-2014 01:23 PM               

Another tell-tale sign is the way the "APOLLO" word is closer to the blue at the end. Nearly all reproductions omit this detail and run the word Apollo aligned to the outer border.

posted 10-02-2014 03:00 PM               

I especially like the double-exposed photos of the patches to show the similar or dissimilar proportions. That was a brilliant idea.

I've never seen patches by Dallas Cap & Emblem of the Skylab or ASTP projects. Plus, they were embroiled in a contentious legal dispute from about 1972 until 1975 regarding copyright violations. This case went all the way to the US Supreme Court.

posted 10-03-2014 11:03 AM               

Do you have a 4-inch version of the A-B Emblems patch?

posted 01-26-2015 06:39 PM               

I have no idea who this was produced by, it's a more contemporary issue, with a shiny coated back. There was remnants of black paper in the edge embroidery. The gold color is quite different than the original, but the darn thing is so close I'd be half tempted to say it was made by the same tape.

Here's a morph of the original as photographed and the new patch overlayed:

Here's it compared to the back of the unknown patch from above:

posted 01-10-2017 05:46 AM               

Thoughts anyone?

posted 01-10-2017 11:02 AM               

I believe this patch is from the same maker who made the patches as worn by the Soviet and American crews for their joint crew photo as well as while they trained together at JSC before the mission. I did an analysis not too long ago about this variation (the properly colored one, but I do mention this one, too).

I also believe that this patch should be qualified as a "crew" patch as it was worn by both crews for training.