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Three most common Apollo PPK items

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Author	Topic: Three most common Apollo PPK items
mensax Member Posts: 861 From: Virginia Registered: Apr 2002	posted 07-16-2003 06:30 PM I believe the three most common personal preference kit (PPK) items that were flown during the Apollo missions were American flags, state flags (including foreign countries) and mission patches. I was wondering how these items would rank in value taking into consideration the mission they were flown on. I'd be interested in everyone's opinion. American flags (AF) always seem to bring top dollar. Patches in the middle. State flags (SF) on the bottom. Apollo 11 AF (lunar surface) Apollo 11 patch (lunar surface) Apollo 11 AF Apollo 11 patch Apollo 17 AF (lunar surface) Apollo 17 patch (lunar surface) Apollo 13 AF Apollo 8 AF Apollo 16 AF (lunar surface) Apollo 16 patch (lunar surface) Apollo 13 patch Apollo 8 patch Apollo 15 AF (lunar surface) Apollo 15 patch (lunar surface) Apollo 12 AF (lunar surface) Apollo 12 patch (lunar surface) Apollo 17 AF Apollo 17 patch Apollo 14 AF (lunar surface) Apollo 14 patch (lunar surface) Apollo 16 AF Apollo 16 patch Apollo 15 AF Apollo 15 patch Apollo 12 AF Apollo 12 patch Apollo 14 AF Apollo 14 patch Apollo 11 SF Apollo 10 AF Apollo 10 patch Apollo 13 SF Apollo 8 SF Apollo 9 AF Apollo 9 patch Apollo 7 AF Apollo 7 patch Apollo 11 SF (lunar surface) Apollo 17 SF (lunar surface) Apollo 16 SF (lunar surface) Apollo 15 SF (lunar surface) Apollo 12 SF (lunar surface) Apollo 14 SF (lunar surface) Apollo 17 SF Apollo 16 SF Apollo 15 SF Apollo 12 SF Apollo 14 SF Apollo 10 SF Apollo 9 SF Apollo 7 SF
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 42981 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999	posted 07-16-2003 06:44 PM One thing your chart might take into consideration is the overall pecking order when it comes to where an object has traveled on a U.S. mission. In general, the following applies (from most valued to least): Lunar surface exposed Lunar surface carried (outside the LM) Lunar surface landed Lunar orbit Sub-orbital trajectory (specifically, MR3 and MR4) Earth orbit on Apollo Earth orbit on Mercury Earth orbit on Gemini Earth orbit on Skylab Earth orbit on Shuttle/ISS So here is my take on your final list: Apollo 11 AF (lunar surface) Apollo 11 patch (lunar surface) Apollo 11 AF Apollo 11 patch Apollo 17 AF (lunar surface) Apollo 17 patch (lunar surface) Apollo 11 SF (lunar surface) Apollo 16 AF (lunar surface) Apollo 13 AF Apollo 8 AF Apollo 16 patch (lunar surface) Apollo 13 patch Apollo 8 patch Apollo 15 AF (lunar surface) Apollo 15 patch (lunar surface) Apollo 12 AF (lunar surface) Apollo 12 patch (lunar surface) Apollo 17 AF Apollo 17 patch Apollo 17 SF (lunar surface) Apollo 14 AF (lunar surface) Apollo 14 patch (lunar surface) Apollo 16 SF (lunar surface) Apollo 15 SF (lunar surface) Apollo 12 SF (lunar surface) Apollo 14 SF (lunar surface) Apollo 16 AF Apollo 16 patch Apollo 15 AF Apollo 15 patch Apollo 12 AF Apollo 12 patch Apollo 14 AF Apollo 14 patch Apollo 11 SF Apollo 10 AF Apollo 10 patch Apollo 13 SF Apollo 8 SF Apollo 9 AF Apollo 9 patch Apollo 7 AF Apollo 7 patch Apollo 17 SF Apollo 16 SF Apollo 15 SF Apollo 12 SF Apollo 14 SF Apollo 10 SF Apollo 9 SF Apollo 7 SF
mensax Member Posts: 861 From: Virginia Registered: Apr 2002	posted 07-17-2003 09:07 AM Thanks for your updated list. It is very interesting to look through the list and see how much it bounces around... What do think about sewn patches versus beta patches? Were there equal quantities flown, is one more valued than the other?
Larry McGlynn Member Posts: 1255 From: Boston, MA Registered: Jul 2003	posted 07-17-2003 10:18 AM I believe there were less sewn patches taken on missions. I have seen stacks of beta patches in cleanroom sealed plastic bags. Due to the thickness of the sewn items including flags, there aren't as many. I just don't know how many. I do like the beta patches over the sewn pieces because the astronauts can write on them and specifically state that the item has flown. Another reason is due to the fact that beta cloth had such an important role in the missions.
Scott Member Posts: 3307 From: Houston, TX Registered: May 2001	posted 07-17-2003 10:52 AM Also remember that anything with lunar dust or soil adhering to it increases its value exponentially compared to a similar item which may have been stowed inside an always sealed container or pouch for the duration of the voyage. Lunar surface items which were used outside the LM are not the only items which may possess lunar material. As Charlie Duke has pointed out, the astronauts tracked lots of dust into the LM after their EVAs, and upon Lunar Orbital Insertion (following ascent) when the gravity was once again zero, all the dust on the floor of the LM floated up all around the cabin and stuck to just about everything, and stayed permanently on things with nooks and crannies (like fabrics) or exposed adhesives.
NC Apollo Fan Member Posts: 261 From: Belmont, NC USA Registered: Jul 2000	posted 07-17-2003 11:44 AM I would place a higher premium on the beta patches (as opposed to sewn patches). To me they are more attractive and, being beta, they were important to the program. As Larry has also noted, they are easier to inscribe. This is a difficult (but interesting) thread because so much of it will be subjective to the collector. For example, I might imagine that Wayne values his flown A12 Texas state flag just as much or more than he would if it were the Stars and Stripes. Charlie Duke took along North and South Carolina state flags because he is from that part of the country — having one of those carries a special value in my opinion. Generally speaking however, I agree with Robert. I think that the state flags deserve a bit more in terms of valuation in the list. I would also include the Robbins Medallions toward the top of any flown category — they are attractive and have a well established history in most cases. Though I'm not sure of exactly where they were flown — perhaps not in the PPKs?
mensax Member Posts: 861 From: Virginia Registered: Apr 2002	posted 07-17-2003 04:50 PM I agree that many of the beta cloth patches are preferable as they can be signed and are very attractive. But, in my opinion, some patches are more attractive as sewn patches than they are in beta cloth, Apollo 8 comes to mind. And the sewn patches must be a rarity in comparison. How many flown, sewn, Apollo 17 patches have you seen? So, maybe sometimes beta patches are more valuable, and sometimes sewn patches are more valuable, depending on which mission they are? I would imagine that Apollo 13 patches are the most variable in value as their demand is more connected with the general population than is the case with other items. The opposite being true for Apollo 8 which has a great deal of respect among "those in the know." I for one am a big fan of flown flags, but it does seem that after one has collected one or two American flags that you would seek unique items making the patches a more desirable collectable among "seasoned collectors" than more American flags.
spaceman1953 Member Posts: 953 From: South Bend, IN Registered: Apr 2002	posted 07-17-2003 08:18 PM I think there were more than a few astronauts who flew their wedding rings in their PPK's, weren't there? I sent Alan Shepard a little plastic Mercury space capsule/pencil sharpener with the sharpener removed and crammed it with an American flag and some other stuff and asked if he would fly it on Apollo 14, but, of course, I got it back with a letter of regrets. I think flags and patches are the most frequent things flown.
Larry McGlynn Member Posts: 1255 From: Boston, MA Registered: Jul 2003	posted 07-17-2003 11:19 PM Astronauts did fly personal items in their PPKs. Aldrin brought a communion kit with him in his lunar surface PPK. It's those personal items that make this hobby interesting.
4allmankind Member Posts: 1043 From: Dallas Registered: Jan 2004	posted 08-14-2005 07:46 PM I found this topic from quite some time ago that I find to be an invaluable post for those who collect flown atrifacts — I felt it deserved to be refreshed. Because this post is of some age, would anyone care to add their thoughts on if the "order" of hobby preference has changed? I would love some of the more experienced collectors/dealers to add their 2 cents to the above ranked-list.
Richard New Member Posts: 5 From: Morrisonville, New York USA Registered: Apr 2009	posted 08-16-2005 03:26 PM I would think the order of these would be somewhat different now. For example, would people really value an Apollo 17 American flag more highly than an Apollo 14 American flag flown to the lunar surface?
4allmankind Member Posts: 1043 From: Dallas Registered: Jan 2004	posted 08-16-2005 10:08 PM I totally agree. Generally speaking: I think all lunar flags now need to get bumped up a few notches. I think I would value the Apollo 8 items more then Apollo 13 items.
Matt T Member Posts: 1368 From: Chester, Cheshire, UK Registered: May 2001	posted 08-17-2005 03:21 AM I'd add that in terms of desirability the whole "set" is becoming less attractive to me with each passing year. With three major space auctions a year, Gene Cernan selling through Novaspace and astronauts like Duke and Aldrin selling direct there is still no sign of the supply of lunar artifacts drying up, in fact maybe the reverse. There are still many Apollo astronauts whose personal mementos haven't reached the market in any numbers yet — Young, Mattingly, Schmitt, Armstrong, Anders, Schweickart, McDivitt etc. We all like to joke about Buzz and the U-Haul behind the CM, but in fairness there's been a plentiful supply of lunar items from Cernan, Scott and Duke in recent years. Not to mention all the things NASA gave away over the years. Well into the 1980s some guys were still being given lunar flown flags as a retirement present. Maybe they still are? This stuff is rare, certainly - just not as rare as we like to tell ourselves. Oh and for the record, my top item would be a piece of lunar flown spacesuit, Apollo 11 first, then any mission.
mensax Member Posts: 861 From: Virginia Registered: Apr 2002	posted 08-17-2005 07:44 AM I don't believe there has been any change in the order of these PPK valuations as a result of a couple of years going by. Sure, there is plenty of room for debate about "this item should be here" in the list. It was true then and now. With regard to Apollo 17 flags, we've all seen a lot of items from Gene Cernan's personal collection come up for sale... but I don't recall him selling a single flag nor do I recall seeing one ever sell from Harrison Schmitt. There is no doubt of the significance of Apollo 8, an incredible mission of historic importance rivaling Apollo 11. But to the average Joe on the street, Apollo 13 outshines it. Go down to KSC and visit the gift shop; Apollo 11 and 13 items outnumber everything else combined. If you want to buy a space collectable with the greatest chance of it increasing in value, then seek something that will be desired by people outside of the collecting community... Apollo 11 and Apollo 13. And yes, there are quite a few of these PPK items "out there" (there a thousands of times as many A11 signed crew photos), but like A11 photos they are still rare, that is there are not as many of them as there are folks that would like to have them. These PPK items are just tremendous when framed and properly presented. There are many lawyers, doctors, and executives who would love to have one of these beauties hanging on their office wall. I believe we will see an ever escalating increase in the price of these PPK items. The recent Astronaut Scholarship Auction brought all time high hammer bids and I think that the Fall Aurora auction will realize the same. I'll be very interested to see what the final sale figures will be at the current Mastronet sale.
Matt T Member Posts: 1368 From: Chester, Cheshire, UK Registered: May 2001	posted 08-17-2005 08:23 AM For what it's worth, regarding the Apollo 17 flags — both of the NASA retirement gift flags I have seen recently were flown on Apollo 17, both seemed to be lunar orbit. I guess NASA knew they wouldn't be going back to the moon anytime soon and stocked up on supplies. I wonder how many they have left now?
4allmankind Member Posts: 1043 From: Dallas Registered: Jan 2004	posted 08-21-2005 08:28 PM Are flags such as these from Apollo missions flown in any particular astronauts PPK? I assume these are agency presentations (similar to the vintage flown flags attached to the 'white/cream' colored certificates) and not given out by any particular member of the crew. Did NASA as an organization have their own PPK of flags etc to give personnel or were these pieces included in a crew members PPK?
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 42981 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999	posted 08-21-2005 08:55 PM The government's PPK was in fact the OFK, or Official Flight Kit (though the astronauts did carry flags of their own in their PPK as desired). Apollo 11 and Apollo 17 (at least) also carried a special flag kit for later presentation to the states and nations of the world. For more details, see: Articles Authorized to be Carried on Manned Spaceflight Missions.

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