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Forum:	Opinions & Advice
Topic:	193681837879: Gemini 12 USS Wasp cover

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Your Reply: HTML is ON UBB Code is ON Smilies Legend	[QUOTE]Originally posted by hbw60: [B]I'm somewhat new to collecting these, so thanks very much for all of this information! Learning all of this has made me more curious about them, and I've got a couple of questions: [list=1][]How rare are the Gemini 8 covers, considering the recovery fleet unexpectedly changed right before splashdown? []I had no idea that covers existed which were flown on the helicopters. I'm guessing these are nearly impossible to find. Does anyone have a rough estimate as to what they're worth?[/list] Many thanks again![/B][/QUOTE]
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<table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="600"><TR><td bgcolor="#000000"><TABLE BORDER=0 cellpadding=4 border=0 cellspacing=1 WIDTH="100%"><TR bgcolor="#660000"><TD COLSPAN=2><CENTER>T O P I C     R E V I E W</CENTER></TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#494949"><TD valign=top>thisismills</TD><TD>Would be interesting to understand the reasons why this <a href="https://www.ebay.com/itm/193681837879" target="AirLock">counterfeit cover</a> for the USS Wasp recovery of Gemini 12 has already been bid to multiple times higher than a genuine cover. Is it rarity alone, or maybe the Qatar connection?A few examples of other counterfeit covers like this for the GT-12 mission can be found near the bottom on Ross Smith's wonderful website in the <a href="http://recovery_ships.rossjsmith.com/recovery-gemini/gemini_12_cachets.htm" target="AirLock">Fake Covers</a> section.<center><img src="http://www.collectspace.com/review/thisismills/193681837879_gt12_wasp_cover01.jpg" width="400" height="232"></center></TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#333333"><TD valign=top>hbw60</TD><TD>It must be the stamps themselves. I bought most of my Gemini/Apollo recovery cachets for between $5 to $20. This one's already over $100, which is crazy.But a larger set of 1966 Qatar stamps recently <A HREF="https://www.ebay.com/itm/254713173968/" TARGET=_blank>ended for over $300</A>. So that must be it. Most likely, the bidders are stamp collectors who found some moderately valuable stamps, and are further enticed by the (purported) historical connection. By the way, thank you for the reference guide! It looks like most of the missions don't have any forgeries noted, which is a good sign. I was glad to see that all of mine appear authentic. I had no idea that there were fakes on the market, so thanks again for posting this!</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#494949"><TD valign=top>Ross</TD><TD>I noticed that lot. I doubt the value is due to stamp collectors as the two stamps are part of an inexpensive set of eight. More likely space cover collectors noted that this fake cover usually has US stamps. In fact this is the first one I've seen with non US stamps. Please correct me if someone has seen another. The four examples I show on my site all have US stamps. At present they are listed under Gemini 12 but I intend to duplicate them under fake stamps. The high price seems to match recent sales of unusual covers, especially Becks, for higher prices than I would have expected. Only needs two keen bidders.</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#333333"><TD valign=top>NAAmodel#240</TD><TD>I guess my Russian cover is a fake too. <center><a href="http://www.collectspace.com/review/naamodel240/gt12_wasp_cover01-lg.jpg" target="AirLock"><img src="http://www.collectspace.com/review/naamodel240/gt12_wasp_cover01.jpg" width="400" height="223" border="0"></a></center>At least I have my Apollo 4 PRS.<center><a href="http://www.collectspace.com/review/naamodel240/apollo4_bennington_cover01-lg.jpg" target="AirLock"><img src="http://www.collectspace.com/review/naamodel240/apollo4_bennington_cover01.jpg" width="400" height="236" border="0"></a></center></TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#494949"><TD valign=top>Ross</TD><TD>Unfortunately your USS Wasp cover is indeed a fake as is your USS Bennington. Looks like it is from the same source. This is now the second fake cover with non US stamps. I'll add them to my site if that is OK.</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#333333"><TD valign=top>NAAmodel#240</TD><TD>Hi Ross. Just kidding. I knew they were both fakes. There was talk they may have come from a print shop in a prison.</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#494949"><TD valign=top>Ken Havekotte</TD><TD>Interesting guys, but just curious to find out; How were the fake recovery covers tracked back to a prisoner and how would he arrange the time nor have the printers authorized for such a job? Was he doing the printing himself without the jailers knowledge? An interesting story for sure. Hmmm, you know, there was a popular space cover dealer that served some time in a New York prison for a few years!</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#333333"><TD valign=top>hbw60</TD><TD>I'm somewhat new to collecting these, so thanks very much for all of this information! Learning all of this has made me more curious about them, and I've got a couple of questions: <OL TYPE=1><LI>How rare are the Gemini 8 covers, considering the recovery fleet unexpectedly changed right before splashdown?<LI>I had no idea that covers existed which were flown on the helicopters. I'm guessing these are nearly impossible to find. Does anyone have a rough estimate as to what they're worth?</OL> Many thanks again!</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#494949"><TD valign=top>thisismills</TD><TD>Thanks to all for your comments and insight into these covers. I too would enjoy hearing more details into who created them. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by hbw60: I've got a couple of questions...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> For Gemini 8, as with other missions at the time, covers were sent by collectors to "cover coordinators" who then distributed them to the various ships participating in the recovery effort before they left port. Collectors had varying amount of notice for certain mission versus others which can contribute to some flights having less/more covers available. Below are two clippings from the USCS (Universal Ship Cancellation Society) describing this process for Gemini 8. USCS Log, March 1966 - Cover coordinator mailing instructions<center><a href="http://www.collectspace.com/review/thisismills/uscs_log01-lg.jpg" target="AirLock"><img src="http://www.collectspace.com/review/thisismills/uscs_log01.jpg" width="400" height="375" border="0"></a></center>USCS Log, April 1966 - Results of participating ships<center><a href="http://www.collectspace.com/review/thisismills/uscs_log02-lg.jpg" target="AirLock"><img src="http://www.collectspace.com/review/thisismills/uscs_log02.jpg" width="400" height="274" border="0"></a></center>Covers from the Leonard F. Mason exist with both a Navy applied RSC (rubber stamp cachet) and a Morris Beck printed cachet (provided through a mail in cover service) which have the same overall design. Information on the Beck cachets and their price history can be found on <a href="http://beck.ormurray.com/622-687.htm" target="AirLock">Owen Murray's website</a> (scroll down to #630). The RSC's can be found on eBay in the $10-$40 range fairly frequently, while the printed versions tend to come up less often and command a higher price.As for helicopter covers, it really depends on the mission. They exist for many flights and are more common for the last few Apollo and Skylab missions. $100-$200 is around the range I've seen for the Apollo flights, with a wider range depending on the quantity and significance of the autographs. Covers from Mercury and Gemini flights are harder to find and will command higher prices if collectors see them at auction.With that said, all these items are out there and can still be found online and in $1 boxes at shows, so always be on the look out!</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#333333"><TD valign=top>bobslittlebro</TD><TD>Wow!!! Final selling price $340.00. I'm amazed.</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#494949"><TD valign=top>NAAmodel#240</TD><TD>And had it been a GENUINE GT-XII PRS it would have been worth $10.</TD></TR></TABLE></td></tr></table>

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